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| Marj |
 Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:57 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 10497
Location: Manhattan
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knox wrote: Disturbing how many Americans refuse to read subtitles. That just plays so much into the negative image of us as provincial and self-centered -- here's a film that's an international hit, but apparently just can't draw enough audience here to stand on its own. I'm looking forward to the next one, TGWPWF -- Nyqvist and Noren (aka Rapace) are spellbinding.
I couldn't agree more. Of course I'm not writing off the American version until I've seen it, but it's hard for me to imagine anyone other then these two in their respective roles.
Btw, I know you're right about Americans refusing to read subtitles, I asked someone I thought was a rabid film viewer about a certain foreign film. Her response, I think, had more to do with subtitles than anything else. |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:06 pm |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 9010
Location: Shanghai
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I never understood why Americans are so repelled by dubbing. In many countries, foreign films are primarily dubbed, and there's an art to it so that it appears reasonably natural and accurate. Good dubbing can be effective, and less distracting than reading subtitles at the bottom of the screen.
In some countries, such as Italy, most films are/were post-dubbed for sound anyway, so that even the Italian wouldn't often be a perfect match with lip movements.
But that's wandering a bit.
It seems that there are plenty of Americans who can't handle watching black and white films as well. |
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| Befade |
| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:38 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 3784
Location: AZ
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Quote: To cast Daniel Craig as the journalist Blomqvist is just wrong.
I think he could do a good job.......remember he played Perry Smith in the other Capote movie.......he's not always a James Bond type. In the Swedish movies he's mostly a foil for Lisbeth.......kindof a silent mirror. He was barely in the second film. I hear that Robin Wright (formerly Penn) wants to play Erika.....Mickael's boss. I see no problem with that either.
Of course making it again (American) is all about money. But what's the matter with subtitles? I know people who use English subtitles to compensate for incorrect ear transmissions.
Inla........I like Annette Bening for Oscar. But can you tell me this? What has happened to her voice? I just rewatched The Grifters and she sounds so girlish.......nothing like she does now. Is it heavy smoking or a haughty practiced enunciation? |
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| carrobin |
| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:35 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 7795
Location: NYC
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Re subtitles: Our film class was extremely pro-subtitles, of course, and our professor would never have shown a dubbed foreign film. The movie that convinced me that subtitles were better than dubbing was "La Cage Aux Folles," which we saw for clsss with subtitles, and I saw later in a dubbed version. The subtitled film was hilarious; the dubbed version was just amusing. I recall specifically the line "There are Greeks on my plates?!" Scandalized, vs. surprised. Makes a difference.
My dad was one of those who wouldn't watch black-and-white films. To him, they were old-fashioned, and he liked things new and colorful. But "Manhattan" and "Stardust Memories" wouldn't have been his type anyway. |
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| Earl |
| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:53 pm |
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Joined: 09 Jun 2004
Posts: 2621
Location: Houston
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How about Raging Bull?
Whenever I hear/read that Americans, especially young Americans, don't like to watch B&W, I think of MTV. Or, at least whichever one of its many incarnations is actually showing music videos these days. A lot of music videos are shot in B&W. That's probably because many music videos are directed by youngsters who are fresh out of film school, will work cheap and are eager to experiment with "radical" concepts like B&W. Still though, MTV's target audience is young people, no? |
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| carrobin |
| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:58 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 7795
Location: NYC
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| I honestly don't know whether my dad would have liked "Raging Bull"--he wasn't a boxing fan and it probably would have been too "arty" for him. (He and his wife went to see "Midnight Cowboy" thinking it was a western. No joke. Of course they walked out pretty quickly.) |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:17 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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I love black and white. Casablanca and The Apartment would not work in color for me. That's just two.
Schindler's List. Ed Wood. Psycho. Citizen Kane. I could go on all night. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:18 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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| Betsy--I agree Daniel Craig is potentially excellent casting for TGWTDT, but he was awful awful awful as Perry Smith. IMO. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:57 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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marantzo wrote: I take it that you watched Corner Gas. Are they making a movie of it? I love that show. Watch the reruns all the time. Ah, Dog River Days.
They've been talking about a movie since the show went off the air. So far, nothing. I think the show is great. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:01 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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| Had no idea Americans were anti either subtitles or black and white. I have no trouble with either, and certainly don't want to hear some sub-par dubbing. Add The Last Picture Show to the list of essential black and white veiwing. And Manhattan, even though I prefer Annie Hall. |
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You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.
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| gromit |
| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:27 am |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 9010
Location: Shanghai
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carrobin wrote: Re subtitles: Our film class was extremely pro-subtitles, of course, and our professor would never have shown a dubbed foreign film.
Joe Vitus wrote: Had no idea Americans were anti either subtitles or black and white. I have no trouble with either, and certainly don't want to hear some sub-par dubbing. [/i].
Sorry folks, but I think this is just ignorant bias.
Just because you've seen some bad dubbing doesn't mean dubbing is bad.
I also don't want to read any sub-par subtitles.
Dubbing can be done poorly or artfully. I'm sure it's easier to do an adequate or good job of subtitling than it is to do dubbing. But many countries have developed serious dubbing talent and dubbing artists. When it is done well, the main benefit is that it frees up your eyes to actually look at the full frame, or around the frame, instead of focusing down at the bottom to read what is going on. This is especially important for dialogue heavy films with interesting compositions.
Really dubbing is a more natural way to watch a film -- listening to voices and watching the whole screen, rather than reading the bottom of the frame.
And we've all dealt with poor subtitles, whether too fleeting, white-on-white violence (which has largely been done away with), ugly yellow subbies, or just plain poor, inaccurate or overly sparse translations. I'm not really a big booster of dubbing, but have had good dubbing experiences. Certainly a few times with Japanese animation. I wish I could remember the few other regular films -- mostly older Italian, I think -- in which I preferred the dub to the subtitles. |
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Killing your enemies, if it's done badly, increases their number. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:44 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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Good dubbing can indeed happen, though I can't remember the movies. So can poor subtitling. However...
Given the choice, I would opt for subtitles, mainly because no dubber, however good an actor, can substitute for the actual voice coming from the actor in the movie. |
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| grace |
| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 8:33 am |
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Joined: 11 Nov 2005
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Befade wrote: Quote: To cast Daniel Craig as the journalist Blomqvist is just wrong.
I think he could do a good job.......remember he played Perry Smith in the other Capote movie.......he's not always a James Bond type.
Watching Infamous (the Capote flick), I was really impressed with the actor who played Perry Smith, so I looked it up; and I was shocked that it was Daniel Craig. I had no idea he was in it, or that he had any kind of range. So, another vote for his maybe being able to pull of TGWtDT. |
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| Marj |
| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:06 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 10497
Location: Manhattan
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| I'm sorry to have to disagree, grace. I thought Daniel Craig was embarrassingly bad as Perry Smith in Infamous. If you can, do pick up a copy of Capote and In Cold Blood to see much better performances by much better actors. |
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| grace |
| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:18 pm |
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Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 3214
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| marj, I've seen them both. Just a case of different tastes, or lack thereof on my part or whatever. |
Last edited by grace on Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:27 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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