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| daffy |
 Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:35 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1939
Location: Wall Street
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Quote: "Keira Knightley... looks simultaneously sexy and muddy, which is a necessity in this movie, and fits right into the current appetite for women action heroes who are essentially honorary men, all except for the squishy parts."
LOL!
Marilyn wrote: Yes, it's funny. But it is inaccurate (unless these characters really are men in women's bodies--I haven't seen enough of these films to be able to judge). Women and girls like warrior women (like Buffy), and always have. I loved Wonder Woman as a comic book and a TV series.
My favorite kick-ass woman has always been Emma Peel. While the leather certainly didn't hurt, the overwhelming reason is that Diana Rigg is a goddess.
I don't think Ebert is saying that today's women heros aren't liked by females, I think he means that today's action women are almost indistinguishable from action men, that they aren't all that feminine any more. Mrs Peel and Wonder Woman are feminine (and Buffy too, for all I know. I've never seen the show).
Marilyn wrote: Hetero men like these characters because they usually are scantily clad and have a bit of the S&M attraction to them.
I've never really understood the whole S&M dominance type of thing, but I certainly love smart, strong women. Scantily clad is nice, too.
I can't stand dumb women. They make my skin crawl. |
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| Marilyn |
| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:39 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8210
Location: Skokie (not a bad movie, btw)
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Daffy - My limitation in judging Ebert's view is that I haven't seen movies with these types of women in them. If they are just the same as action heroes, I see his point. What I was saying is that action heroines have a lot of appeal to women without them having to be like men. In fact, I think a lot of (hetero) women are really turned off by male-acting women.
Emma Peel was great! But she was British, which limited her appeal for me as a young woman. I wanted someone exactly like me. |
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| chillywilly |
| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:54 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8251
Location: Salt Lake City
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billyweeds wrote: 1) "Keira Knightley, who was the best friend in 'Bend It Like Beckham,' here looks simultaneously sexy and muddy, which is a necessity in this movie, and fits right into the current appetite for women action heroes who are essentially honorary men, all except for the squishy parts."
Great quotes, especially the above. Ebert's writings are very enjoyable and ones that I look forward to each week.
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Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
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| daffy |
| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:04 am |
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Posts: 1939
Location: Wall Street
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Marilyn wrote: What I was saying is that action heroines have a lot of appeal to women without them having to be like men. In fact, I think a lot of (hetero) women are really turned off by male-acting women.
I think Ebert agrees with you straight up. A lot of it is a generational thing. The target audience is, after all, in their twenties. These days those folks seem to like it this way. Personally, I don't exactly find it to be a turn-off, but I do find it less interesting, story- and character-wise, if all the women are just like the men, and vice versa.
There are certain men for whom Mrs Peel is a touchstone in their lives. It's like asking them "Maryanne or Ginger?" |
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| Marilyn |
| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:06 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Skokie (not a bad movie, btw)
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| Jynx |
| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:09 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 750
Location: Nowheresville
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| Betty or Veronica? |
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| Marilyn |
| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:10 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Skokie (not a bad movie, btw)
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| Jynx |
| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:31 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: Nowheresville
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| I think Lovey was asexual ... with the Mr. sleeping with teddy and whatnot ... |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:34 am |
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Jynx wrote: I think Lovey was asexual ... with the Mr. sleeping with teddy and whatnot ...
Who the fuck are Lovey and Teddy? (This MUST be generational.) |
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| Jynx |
| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:43 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 750
Location: Nowheresville
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Ooooh .. Daphne or Velma?
Heather, Heather or Veronica? |
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| daffy |
| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 12:07 pm |
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billy -
Lovey is a character from Gilligan's Island (as are Maryanne & Ginger). Her husband, Thurston Howell III, played by the inimitable Jim Backus, slept with a teddy bear. |
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| Jynx |
| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 12:25 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Quote: Who the fuck are Lovey and Teddy? (This MUST be generational.)
ROTFLMFAO! generational ... snicker, snort. |
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| Syd |
| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:24 pm |
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Quote: 1) "Keira Knightley, who was the best friend in 'Bend It Like Beckham,' here looks simultaneously sexy and muddy
Sounds promising. I have to see this. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 6:13 pm |
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I just saw Cigarettes and Coffee. Jarmusch sure does have some novel ways of saying things. This movie is made up of a number of vignettes of people having coffee and cigarettes together. For the most part they really don't seem to have much to say to each other and aren't too happy to be having coffee and cigarettes together. The first sequence with Steve Wright and Benigni (the guy who stood on the seats when he won the Oscar), is bizarre in a very Jarmusch way. The actors play themselves and Roberto helps Wright get out of his dentist appointment.
There is a Jungian/Spinozan ethos that is played out throughout the film. A universal connection with overtones of the uselessness of pity and regret.
I just made up that above statement with a psychiatrist and philosopher that I picked at random. The wierd thing is that it actually fits.
Some of the clips work better than others. Blanchet is excellent playing herself and her cousin. Alfred Molina with the guy who was the hero of 24 Hour Party People probably provided the most complete and satifying little psychodrama of the movie. They were both very good and Molina showed me that his turn in Spider-Man II was just a misstep. Billy Murray is a pisser in his role as Bill Murray as a coffee house waiter. Iggy Pop and Tom Waites have a little coffee clatch that displays chinks in their psyches that I'm sure are completely foreign to their real psyches, as are most if not all of the characterizations of these real people are.
I'm not sure about Steve Wright, though. |
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| frankbooth |
| Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:16 pm |
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Joined: 10 Jun 2004
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Ok, signing on for the first time and butting in with my oft impressionist opinion. Jeez, I can barely see what I'm writing here. I'm sure everyone's already discussed 'Saddest Music' ad nauseum but it's one of the best films I've seen since 'Mulholland' (another fave).
Beyond that 'My Life as a Dog' and '8 1/2' are some of my all time favorites. To comment on the existing posts, there is no sexy without intelligence. That's why I can't understand the current fascination with dumb pre-pubescents. Many women film characters aren't fully defined psychologically and that's pretty sad.
daffy wrote: Quote: "Keira Knightley... looks simultaneously sexy and muddy, which is a necessity in this movie, and fits right into the current appetite for women action heroes who are essentially honorary men, all except for the squishy parts."
LOL! Marilyn wrote: Yes, it's funny. But it is inaccurate (unless these characters really are men in women's bodies--I haven't seen enough of these films to be able to judge). Women and girls like warrior women (like Buffy), and always have. I loved Wonder Woman as a comic book and a TV series.
My favorite kick-ass woman has always been Emma Peel. While the leather certainly didn't hurt, the overwhelming reason is that Diana Rigg is a goddess.
I don't think Ebert is saying that today's women heros aren't liked by females, I think he means that today's action women are almost indistinguishable from action men, that they aren't all that feminine any more. Mrs Peel and Wonder Woman are feminine (and Buffy too, for all I know. I've never seen the show).
Marilyn wrote: Hetero men like these characters because they usually are scantily clad and have a bit of the S&M attraction to them.
I've never really understood the whole S&M dominance type of thing, but I certainly love smart, strong women. Scantily clad is nice, too.
I can't stand dumb women. They make my skin crawl. |
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