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| Marc |
 Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:54 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 8424
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Quote: I have a problem about film that gives the pimps and hos thing an easy ride.
HUSTLE & FLOW has some of the politically incorrect vibe of early Blaxploitation flicks. The graphic style of the opening credits, a very imperfect lead character who has done some shitty things walking away from it all without having really paid harshly for his crimes (in fact, perhaps becoming rich) reminded me of SUPERFLY. A pimp and a drug dealer (in SUPERFLY it was coke, HUSTLE was pot) walks triumphantly into the sunset.
Its a fairytale for criminals, but even criminals have to dream. Jennifer said even though they were a pimp and his hos, it was really just a big dysfunctional family. |
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| shannon |
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:11 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 1628
Location: NC
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Quote: I can see reasons, why the pimp became a hip hop icon, but I’ve always been a bit nonplussed as the why this was accepted so unquestionally by mainstream culture...
Don't you think Hustle & Flow agrees with you? The pimp's life in the movie is anything but glamourous. I can't see anybody watching and thinking "gee, I'd like to do that." His life is horrible. That's one of the things I liked about the movie. It takes the glamourous pimp icon perpetuated by hip-hop and '70's blaxploitation cinema and exposes the reality of it. There's nothing pleasant about it. It's just as degrading for the pimp as it is the ho.
Quote: I’d like too see a film, not a police procedural, not a vigilante actioner, not a liberal crusading lawyer does good film, but a Boyz N The Hood or a Baby Boy that does right by those hos.
How exactly does Hustle & Flow do wrong by those hos? Sure, they're not the primary focus, but it treats them with respect, it cares about their feelings. Sure, it falls short of giving them a way out, but I think if it did this, the film would be dishonest. (There's a reason they're hos to begin with. If they could, or if they thought they could, be doing something else, they would be doing it.) |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:19 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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Quote: does right by those hos.
How about a musical that treats the hos like the Trapp family.
"The hills are alive with the sound of crunk". |
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| jeremy |
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:25 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6794
Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
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| The only reason a prositute needs a pimp is to protect her from other pimps and to stop getting ideas above her station. Pimped whores are not part of some dysfunctional family, they are exploited and abused women. And I'm sorry, I'm not going to get behind DJ just because being a pimp didn't turn out to be as fulfilling as he hoped. |
_________________
I am angry, I am ill, and I'm as ugly as sin.
My irritability keeps me alive and kicking.
I know the meaning of life, it doesn't help me a bit.
I know beauty and I know a good thing when I see it. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:28 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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shannon wrote: Quote: I can see reasons, why the pimp became a hip hop icon, but I’ve always been a bit nonplussed as the why this was accepted so unquestionally by mainstream culture...
Don't you think Hustle & Flow agrees with you? The pimp's life in the movie is anything but glamourous. I can't see anybody watching and thinking "gee, I'd like to do that." His life is horrible. That's one of the things I liked about the movie. It takes the glamourous pimp icon perpetuated by hip-hop and '70's blaxploitation cinema and exposes the reality of it. There's nothing pleasant about it. It's just as degrading for the pimp as it is the ho.
Quote: I’d like too see a film, not a police procedural, not a vigilante actioner, not a liberal crusading lawyer does good film, but a Boyz N The Hood or a Baby Boy that does right by those hos.
How exactly does Hustle & Flow do wrong by those hos? Sure, they're not the primary focus, but it treats them with respect, it cares about their feelings. Sure, it falls short of giving them a way out, but I think if it did this, the film would be dishonest. (There's a reason they're hos to begin with. If they could, or if they thought they could, be doing something else, they would be doing it.)
shannon's post couldn't be any more on the money if he tried. The hos are treated with respect and the pimp's life is hell on earth. That's what's so wonderful about the movie. It puts you in a hellish atmosphere and makes it gritty yet entertaining. |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:33 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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Quote: I'm not going to get behind DJ
who's gettin' behind DJay?
Films with morally compromised characters at their center are part of a long cinematic tradition:
THE GODFATHER, TAXI DRIVER, almost every film noir, DOG DAY AFTERNOON, SCARFACE... etc. |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:35 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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Did anyone "get behind" Djay when he dumped the baby on the front lawn?
Hell, no. I thought to myself "what a pig". |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:38 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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HUSTLE & FLOW was clearly sending up the whole macho, pimpin', bling bling, gangsta gun totin', sellout,
elements of rap in the character of Skinny Black, clearly based on Snoop Dogg. |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:48 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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| HUSTLE & FLOW was also about a real phenomenon, that of convicts who have become rap stars and rap stars who have become convicts: 50 CENT, SNOOP DOGG, DMX, TUPAC....The gangsta thing (which I mostly hate) is a real big part of rap and hip hop culture. I thought HUSTLE & FLOW nailed some of the aspects of that culture while still trying to give some of its young (particularly poor and Black) audience a sense of a way out. The way out being to ultimately believe in your better self. And the white hip hop fan was, as shannon pointed out, not glorifying the "gangsta" shit, but celebrating the music and its roots in southern musical culture, from r&b to gospel. |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:04 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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"is a pig's pussy pork?" from HUSTLE & FLOW
One of HUSTLE & FLOW's themes is redemption. In order for a character to find redemption (even if its not total) he has to be unredeemed (not unredeemable). There is no redemption unless there is evil. DJay, a pimp, starts off in a bad place, but as the film progresses and he discovers more and more of his good side (thru his art), he starts becoming a better person. Hell, this worthless pimp ends up becoming the caretaker of a baby who's father he doesn't even know. Why? Because he has fallen in love with the baby's mother (Shug) who happens to be a whore. The scene where DJay finally recognizes his love for Shug is one of the most unabashedly romantic scenes ever put on the screen. Set to a swelling string-filled r&b instrumental, this scene is powerfully moving and convincing. Hustle's director, Craig Brewer, has created a scene that swoons like the best of Douglas Sirk.
There is a suggestion at the end of HUSTLE that Djay has been spiritually transformed. His Jeri curl doo has been replaced with a tight set of un-pomaded cornrows. He walks with an heroic gait, confident, proud. He looks like he's been working out, he's strong. Bet you he gave up cigarettes.
Bet you he stops drinking. Bet you he marries Shug. Bet you he shares his royalties fairly with his co-writers and management. In the end, there is something about Terrence Howard's physical transformation and the clear look in his eyes that tell you he is a changed man. A better man. And none of this is in the screenplay as far as I know. But, a great movie, and HUSTLE, is a great movie compels you to imagine where the film and its characters are going after the lights come up.
In a lovely montage set to one of Djay's songs playing on the radio (Whoop That Trick), you see all the major characters at their jobs, hustling, at home, etc. As they grasp the significance of the moment, Djay is getting his break (and so hopefully are they), beatific smiles cross their faces, you see their faces fill with pride and vindication. "We are somebody, we are somebody".
Because most of these characters are downtrodden (and being a pimp or whore is not just a choice for some, its survival), this montage is deeply moving. If this were a bunch of callow rich white kids getting a record deal, it wouldn't mean much. But, because these are society's dregs and they are suddenly given hope, we are moved. You can accuse HUSTLE & FLOW of being a series of standard Hollywood feel-good cliches, but the cliches are true. There are thousands of young black men and women who have gone from the streets of Memphis, L.A., D.C., Atlanta and become millionaires. Because they did have a dream of being redeemed thru their art.
Two key moment in HUSTLE & FLOW that hints at the redeemption to come, changing the title of Whoop That Bitch to Whoop That Trick and Shug listening for the first time to her vocal track dropped in to the mix.
HUSTLE & FLOW also has my favorite piece of slang of any movie this year. |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:07 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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| Two key moments in HUSTLE & FLOW that hint at the redeemption to come: changing the title of Whoop That Bitch to Whoop That Trick and Shug listening for the first time to her vocal track dropped in to the mix. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:48 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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Marc--Great deconstruction of H&F.
But what would this...
HUSTLE & FLOW also has my favorite piece of slang of any movie this year.
...be? |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 6:50 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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| Marc |
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:11 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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DJay has just handed Skinny Black some high-end weed.
Skinny (holding up the baggy of pot): "You stand behind your product, nigga"?
Djay replies "Is a pig's pussy pork"? |
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| Befade |
| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:07 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 3784
Location: AZ
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lshap wrote: "The Constant Gardener was an excellent film with a very strong story that, unfortunately, featured a leading man who should never be allowed near an attractive woman. Fiennes simply cannot pull off sexual chemistry."
Puleeze...........no remarks about Ralph Fiennes sexual chemistry. His girlfriend is in her 60's..............and there are many attractive women in their 60's......He is a role model for all of you!
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