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| Joe Vitus |
 Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:54 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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billyweeds wrote: Ben Affleck, admittedly, was still in his actor phase, disappearing into his role so completely I didn't recognize him.
I actually hated Affleck even more in GWH than I do now. I have never ever ever ever liked Ben Affleck even a little. Except in Gigli. Really.
(Rhyme unintentional, but cute.)
Not even in Dazed in Confused? I thought he nailed that character. |
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| Mr. Brownstone |
| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:00 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2450
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Goodwill Hunting bothered me because it was everything it purported not to be.
It's not unfathomable to me that Damon/Affleck won an Oscar for the screenwriting, but it is baffling that they continue to get props for their writing from people who should know better.
"It's not your fault..." repeated ad nauseum... what the hell was that scene about?
I also hold a deep resentment against that scene because (be prepared, I'm about to reignite a late 90s NYTFF debate) Damon's crying is obviously dubbed in. For a film that is supposedly the little indie that could to rely on such orchestrated tear-jerking is appalling. You might as well have popped glycerine drips in his eyes.
Also, there are scenes in the movie that make no damn sense, until you've read an interview with Affleck after the film's success that again, appalled me.
The scene where Affleck impersonates Will and goes on a job interview for NASA or whatever, seems to come completely out of nowhere, is mildly amusing for a moment, and then immediately retreats back into the ether. I remember watching the film and thinking, "What the heck was up with that?" It just seemed so incongruent until I read this interview, the source of which I can no longer cite.
In the interview, Affleck admits that the script not only went through a myriad of drafts, it also when through a myriad of premises - there was Will Hunting is chased by the CIA, Will Hunting accidentally invents a powerful new destructive weapon, Will Hunting travels to Africa, etc. These premesis were all eventually dropped and the premise that made it to the screen was obviously the plot synopsis selected.
What became obvious to me, then, was this scene was pretty much a left-over scene from an earlier incarnation, not a different draft, but a entirely different script altogether. Which explained to me why it didn't feel like it belonged in the same movie: it didn't belong in the same movie, it was intended for another movie, and as far as I'm concerned, that's where that scene should have stayed.
It's clumsy and lazy screenwriting.
That being said, I love Affleck's performance, especially in the bar at the beginning. I thought he blew the last scene where he comes to pick up Will, though. Overplayed the shit out of it.
I've come to admire Damon a great deal subsequently, so I prefer not to revisit this film. |
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| lshap |
| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:12 pm |
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Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 4248
Location: Montreal
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Damon's made much better film choices than Affleck - that's kind of obvious. Slightly less obvious is that he's supposed to be a nicer, more accessible guy.
I happen to think Affleck was great in Chasing Amy, proving he had every bit as much raw talent as buddy Matt, but a) He fell into the starfucking machine and copped some stupendously silly roles; and b) Alot of people on this forum hate Chasing Amy, the erroneous bastards. |
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| Mr. Brownstone |
| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:28 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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I don't hate Chasing Amy, but I thought it was nearly ruined by Joey Lauren Adams' one-note performance. That being said, Affleck & Lee were terrific and the first ten minutes is just about as funny as anything I've ever seen. "What's a nubian?"
Affleck is an actor who proves that acting is a craft, a skill, and an art, and that merely "being yourself and remembering your lines" is hardly the prerequisite. I may never forgive Spencer Tracy for his humility; I appreciate the self-deprecation but his famous quote about not bumping into the furniture only serves as ammunition to denigrate the art.
Affleck was a talented actor, who, in my opinion, simply stopped doing his work once he became a huge movie star.
Good Affleck Performances
Dazed & Confused
Mallrats
Chasing Amy
Goodwill Hunting
Shakespeare in Love
Changing Lanes
Not So Good Affleck Performances
Pearl Harbor
Gigli
Bounce
Daredevil
The rest of his filmography I've either forgotten and/or couldn't be bothered.
But I think it's interesting to note that, from my perception, all of his good performances except one comes prior to his media explosion coming off of the two-fisted attack of Goodwill Hunting and Armageddon (it's my understanding Shakespeare in Love was finished before Armageddon came out). Meanwhile, every subpar performance from Affleck is post-Armageddon.
Gwyneth Paltrow even publicly noted this in her Inside the Actors Studio appearance to promote Bounce by insinuating that Affleck was a lazy actor, and part of the reason she agreed to do the film with him was to prompt Affleck to start regarding his art with some sincerity again. And she's his friend. |
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| Rod |
| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:40 pm |
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Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 2944
Location: Lithgow, Australia
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Mr. Brownstone wrote: Not So Good Affleck Performances
Pearl Harbor
The one scene of Pearl Harbor that held any kind of human and dramatic depth was Affleck's and Josh Hartnett's playing of the scene when the two buddies are reunited, just before the attack, and their mutual bitterness over their mutual girlfried bubbles up. It's a cliche scene but they made it feel right. The rest of the film is garbage. For that, I'd say Affleck earned his dough. |
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| yambu |
| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:49 pm |
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Joined: 23 May 2004
Posts: 6441
Location: SF Bay Area
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| We can pick at the edges, but I loved every second that Damon and Williams were together. It takes a great actor and script to portray genius, and Williams matched him. Williams' character, of course , knew what he was up against, but never feared failure, so strong was his professional dedication, his caring for his patient, and his going deep within himself in the process. Yeah, I didn't quite get "It's not your fault", but so what. I'm sorry to hear the crying was dubbed, though. |
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| chillywilly |
| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:26 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8251
Location: Salt Lake City
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Joe Vitus wrote: I thought Good Will Hunting was lame...It was filled with lame moments ("How do ya like them apples?")
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Minnie Driver, playing a Harvard girl, reminded me a lot of the Harvard girl I dated, so how could I help but love her? (Said girl being still a very close friend.)
I do agree about that comment you mentioned above. That was pretty lame and could have been better told or presented.
As for Minnie Driver, it was a great role for her and one that I felt she got right. |
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"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
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| chillywilly |
| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:31 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Salt Lake City
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billyweeds wrote: I actually hated Affleck even more in GWH than I do now. I have never ever ever ever liked Ben Affleck even a little. Except in Gigli. Really.
Paycheck was actually a decent Affleck movie. I personally thought he was good in it.
And I know I may get some tomatos for this one, but his role in Jersey Girl was watchable.
Never saw Gigli. Maybe when it reaches the 4/$10 DVD bin, I may pick it up. |
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Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
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| Terese |
| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:31 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 127
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Re: Good Will Hungting. My interpretation of the "It's not your fault" scene was to do with Matt Damon being abused by his father as a child, whereby the child often blames themselves for one reason or another, hence the "it's not your fault". Then again it's been a long time since I saw it so I could be completely off the mark. |
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| chillywilly |
| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:33 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Salt Lake City
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| The list of good Affleck movies on Brownstone's list are ones that I liked, especially Chasing Amy and GWH. SiL was another performance that I thought was good, although Joseph Fienes and Paltrow were better. |
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"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
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| Mr. Brownstone |
| Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:43 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Yam:
"Yeah, I didn't quite get "It's not your fault", but so what."
Considering it's not only the emotional high point of the scene but serves as the cathartic breakthrough for Will Hunting, not knowing what that moment is about is death for the story.
I suspect that's why the crying was dubbed in; Damon's an extremely facile actor who usually (and gracefully) underplays a scene deftly. This is all circumspect, but I imagine some producer or director wasn't satisfied with the quiet embrace of Williams and Damon and felt the need to add the emotional equivalent of a John Williams trumpet blare by dubbing in some sobbing.
I doubt if Damon would accept such a manipulation again.
As an actor I'm not real enthusiastic about purely manufactured emotional response, like the glycerine tear in Demi Moore's eye in Ghost or the aforementioned dubbed sobbing; it's the acting equivalent of Milli Vanilli as far as I'm concerned.
It can be a difficult proposition for an actor sometimes, however, because often writers and directors, let alone producers, have such specific ideas about moments that are utterly impossible for any actor to create.
I had an acting teacher who once joked about how there was a scene in a film she was working on years before in which her character was instructed by the stage directions to "shed a single tear that bubbled up in her eye before slowly cascading down her cheek."
Now, that sounds beautiful, but how in the name of FUCK is an actor supposed to create that? |
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| yambu |
| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:07 am |
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Joined: 23 May 2004
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Location: SF Bay Area
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Terese wrote: Re: Good Will Hungting. My interpretation of the "It's not your fault" scene was to do with Matt Damon being abused by his father as a child, whereby the child often blames themselves for one reason or another, hence the "it's not your fault". Then again it's been a long time since I saw it so I could be completely off the mark. |
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| tirebiter |
| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:38 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 4011
Location: not far away
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| I loved The Midnight Cowboy. It' no The Citizen Kane, but then, what is? |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:40 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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tirebiter wrote: I loved The Midnight Cowboy. It' no The Citizen Kane, but then, what is?
Another ubiquitous title error is A Touch of Evil. On screen and in official publicity there is no "A" anywhere. |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:40 am |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 9016
Location: Shanghai
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During allergy season, I have pretty leaky eyes. I might be able to cascade a single tear at whim. Although they'd have to cut the scene before my nose started dripping.
Quote: and b) Alot of people on this forum hate Chasing Amy, the erroneous bastards.
Alot of people on this forum like 40Y Virgin, calling it a "sweet, sexy comedy" or something similar. When I hear a phrase like that, I think of a film like Chasing Amy, which was genuinely funny and touching, with believable characters. 40Y was filled with cliched characters: middle-aged adolescent geek, stoner friend, hip black guy, one-note wise-ass friend, hot drunk/unstable chicks, Indian guys who run counter to the stereotypes by cursing.
Yawn. And it was, from beginning to end, unfunny.
American Beauty clicked on all cylinders for me. A smart, interesting script with fine performances all around. I think I'll have to give Ice Storm a try.
Good Will Hunting was a complete turn-off. Ranked low on the believability scale, with way too many false notes. Clunky and strained writing. Affleck looked like he was acting and Damon looked like he couldn't. I was surprised in later films to see that Damon has some genuine acting chops.
You can actually watch them develop as actors in Dogma, a film where they nail half the scenes and look uncertain or less confident the rest of the time. [Boy, if people here pan Clerks and Chasing Amy, I can't imagine that the somewhat overblown Dogma comes in for too much praise]. |
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