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billyweeds
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:05 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20618 Location: New York City
Frankly, Irving Berlin is not my favorite Tin Pan Alley guy.

Well, that's part of the disconnect. He is my favorite. Though I venerate and adore Cole Porter and Rodgers and Hart and would gladly canonize the underappreciated Johnny Mercer, Berlin IMO is the best of them all.

Even though I have this feeling I would have HATED him as a person. The John Wayne/Bob Hope of songwriters.
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billyweeds
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:24 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20618 Location: New York City
Berlin's score for Annie Get Your Gun is IMO the finest single score ever written for a musical comedy, rivaled only by Porter's for Anything Goes.
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Joe Vitus
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:37 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
Marilyn,

So you're just going to ignore my post? Guess it's okay when you make your personal taste objective fact, not when I do...
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mo_flixx
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:52 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
chillywilly wrote:
jeremy wrote:
If your in the mood for really dumb fum, I'd recommend (only in light of the previous qualifier) Underworld. I know its crap, but the art direction is good and there's something about vampy vampires in corset, leather and latex.

A friend of my g/f loves that movie.

There must be something about Kate Beckinsale and vampire movies. She's also in Van Helsing, which wasn't too bad of a movie.

A bit cheesy at times and some of the dialouge could have been left on the cutting room floor, but the action scenes and the beginning were pretty enjoyable.


Glad to see someone else out there thought "Van Helsing" wasn't too bad. I found it quite a guilty pleasure.

Kate Beckinsale's costumes and the vampirettes were really over-the-top.
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Rod
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:57 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 Dec 2004 Posts: 2944 Location: Lithgow, Australia
Joe Vitus wrote:
Rod,

I like Cannery Row, too, though I think what didn't come from Sweet Thursday was made up by the screenwriter. I'm not sure any of it comes from Cannery Row. John Huston's narration is particularly good.


The whole sub-plot of Mac and the boys catching frogs and planning the party that ends up in trashing Doc's place is from Cannery Row; the bit where Winger ends up trying to make home in a boiler and looks for something to hang curtains from metal is also in it but involved a homeless couple. All the characters from the whorehouse including the doorman appaer in the first book though they don't play as big a part. And a lot of Huston's narration lines are direct quotes, though my favorite lines (which involves how a knowledge of automobile upkeep usually balances an ignorance of female anatomy) in the book weren't spoken.

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Marj
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:08 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
Billy,

I don't know if Berlin is my favorite. My tastes tend to change with every new great rendtion of a Tin Pan Alley song. And I agree that Berlin does have that Bob Hope reputation. But after reading a great biography of him: Irving Berlin - A Life in Song by Philip Furia, I really came to respect him a lot more than I had.

But I love your choices. Who other than Porter and Berlin was more prolific, to say nothing of writing both words and music? Anything Goes? Oh, Yes!!
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ehle64
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:13 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 7149 Location: NYC; US&A
Joe Vitus wrote:
Marilyn,

How can you criticize me for my Star Wars comment, and then respond to Billy's articulate defense of Easter Parade with

Quote:
Sorry, but Easter Parade is lame.


You've pretty much dissed him worse than what I did anyone in my defense of Lucas' movie. You're telling him he doens't know how to evaluate musicals, and that your personal opinion is superior to his own.


She probably ignored it because it is completely stretching. To tell someone they thought a movie they like is lame is nothing whatsoever, IMO, like telling a whole group of film buffs that they don't know anything about film if they don't like fucking Star Wars.
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merlot
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:58 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 210 Location: Cinci
Kate - If you liked Blade II , you should check out Guillermo del Toro's other films. I love his films. The Devil's Backbone and Cronos are particular favorites. He also directed Mimic and Hellboy both of which I liked a lot.

M.
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Joe Vitus
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:42 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
Ehle,

She essentially told Billy he didn't know what a good musical was.
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ehle64
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:43 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 7149 Location: NYC; US&A
Joe,

No, she didn't. She said that one Musical he likes is lame.
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Joe Vitus
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:45 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
Rod,

Quote:
The whole sub-plot of Mac and the boys catching frogs and planning the party that ends up in trashing Doc's place is from Cannery Row; the bit where Winger ends up trying to make home in a boiler and looks for something to hang curtains from metal is also in it but involved a homeless couple. All the characters from the whorehouse including the doorman appaer in the first book though they don't play as big a part. And a lot of Huston's narration lines are direct quotes, though my favorite lines (which involves how a knowledge of automobile upkeep usually balances an ignorance of female anatomy) in the book weren't spoken.



Are you sure about the pipe? Because that does happen with the Suzy character in Sweet Thursday (which is how the Rodgers and Hammerstein musical adaptation of the two books got the name Pipe Dream). I can never remember which madam is in the movie, so I don't recall which of the two was used (the second book has the previous madam's sister taking over).
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Joe Vitus
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:46 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
Ehle,

And I didn't tell anyone they didn't know about movies. But the same process that leads you to assume that was my subtext leads to my assuming hers.
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Rod
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:58 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 Dec 2004 Posts: 2944 Location: Lithgow, Australia
Joe Vitus wrote:
Are you sure about the pipe?


Oh yes. Appropriate enough in the sequel if Suzy ended up living there, because the previous occupants had made quite a home of it, what with the aforementioned curtains.

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lshap
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:09 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 12 May 2004 Posts: 4248 Location: Montreal
Irving Berling's stuff is like Alan Mencken's, the Disney songwriting maven. Catchy, simple tunes that have the good fortune to marry themselves to (mostly) top-rate productions. Musically, there's very little that's inventive or deep, just tons of solid, hummable ideas.

For musical scope and raw talent, Berlin isn't in the same league as Richard Rodgers or Cole Porter, both of whom were more versatile and -- at their best -- blew Berlin away. But neither Porter nor Rodgers wrote anything close to the brilliance of Leonard Bernstein's West Side Story.

And for sheer musical genius none of these guys could touch George Gershwin.
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billyweeds
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 10:34 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20618 Location: New York City
lshap wrote:
Irving Berling's stuff is like Alan Mencken's, the Disney songwriting maven. Catchy, simple tunes that have the good fortune to marry themselves to (mostly) top-rate productions. Musically, there's very little that's inventive or deep, just tons of solid, hummable ideas.

For musical scope and raw talent, Berlin isn't in the same league as Richard Rodgers or Cole Porter, both of whom were more versatile and -- at their best -- blew Berlin away. But neither Porter nor Rodgers wrote anything close to the brilliance of Leonard Bernstein's West Side Story.

And for sheer musical genius none of these guys could touch George Gershwin.


And opinions are a dime a dozen. But the opinion that Irving Berlin is on a part with Alan Menken is an opinion that cuts no ice with me.

By the way, Alan Menken's name has no "c." That would be H.L. Mencken, the writer.
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