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mo_flixx
Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 8:47 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
chillywilly wrote:
Adding to the ban on smoking conversation...

Utah legislature has a proposed law to ban all smoking in private clubs (our version of a bar/nightclub).

As a former smoker, I don't go to the bars too often anymore for several reasons... one of which is that I hate coming home and having everything I wear smelling like smoke.

Regardless, I am against the complete ban for one reason: I do not think a majority of anyone should have a say so over what a minority does, including smoking in a bar. I would much rather have bars that allow smoking and bars that don't. Or at least have a smoking section for when they want to light up. That seems a bit segragationalist, but at the same time, it's the best compromise I can see that would work. It worked before when there were smoking and non-smoking sections of places.

In the end, I would rather the majority, not the minority, have to make some expections instead of simply inflicting their way of life onto others, even if that means having to deal with smoke-filled clubs and bars. Because, it's still someone's choice to go to a bar or not go to a bar, regardless of it's smoky content.

I do see the trend of places being smoke free now and I see that continuing to get bigger, but there's a part of it that bothers me, which I explained above.

Here's the article that is in this week's City Weekly.

http://www.slweekly.com/editorial/2005/feat_2005-01-27.cfm


Smoking sections don't work in bars and restaurants for the same reason they don't work in airplanes. YOU CAN STILL SMELL THE SMOKE!

That is, people who are non-smokers, sensitive to smoke, or allergic to smoke CAN STILL SMELL THE SMOKE.

Smokers can't smell much of anything (even though they don't believe it). Remember that kissing a smoker is like licking a dirty ashtray!
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chillywilly
Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 9:17 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 8251 Location: Salt Lake City
mo_flixx wrote:
Smokers can't smell much of anything (even though they don't believe it). Remember that kissing a smoker is like licking a dirty ashtray!

Actually, if you put enough alcohol down you, the breath from that *just about* takes away the "kissing the ashtray" effect. At least according to my g/f back when we first dated.

Since we are on the subject of smoking, the only time I miss it is when everyone else I am with in a social setting (ie. the bar) is smoking and there's a certain aspect of having a smoke while drinking. For that, my craving is satified with a PrimeTime, which is a flavored little cigar that is the exact same size as a cigarette. I don't inhale, I get to have a smoke in my hand and I don't feel left out.

And I also have no desire to smoke a regular cigarette. When I quit, it was one of those "woke up and didn't want to smoke anymore" and haven't in almost 2 years. The PrimeTime's are just like cigars and they cure the social issue. Yes, it could still be considered "smoking" but instead of the 10 a day cigs I used to smoke (or 20 at night at the bar), the Prime Time's are 1-2 a month when we go to the bar.

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Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend"
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chillywilly
Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2005 9:20 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 8251 Location: Salt Lake City
mo_flixx wrote:
Smoking sections don't work in bars and restaurants for the same reason they don't work in airplanes. YOU CAN STILL SMELL THE SMOKE!

That is, people who are non-smokers, sensitive to smoke, or allergic to smoke CAN STILL SMELL THE SMOKE.

Yeah, that's true. But at least if the area is well ventilated, it could work a lot better than someone with a smoke standing next to you at the bar.

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Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend"
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soozala
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:00 am Reply with quote
Joined: 18 Jun 2004 Posts: 62
Happy New Year Everyone!

Am I the only one who red that Lynne Anderson of (I Never Promised You a Rose Garden) "fame" was busted for stealing a Harry Potter DVD from a Video Store in Taos????
She was later caught in Texas, she was stopped for driving under the influence. The article said she was plastered. That's fucked up, isn't she like 80? What does she need with a Harry Potter video? Is that an acceptable substitue for cash when buying booze at the local liquor store these days????
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mo_flixx
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:33 am Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
This was in this morning's Albuquerque JOURNAL NORTH.

Lynn Anderson is 57. She was arrested for drunken driving almost 2 mos. ago in Texas. She is trying to get help for her problem with alcohol.

I know her slightly from canine agility classes - our dogs were classmates. She really is loved in this community and known for her good deeds involving animals and kids. I hope that she will get the help that she needs.
-----------------------------
Saturday, January 29, 2005

Country Singer Lynn Anderson Pleads Innocent To Punching Cop
By Wren Propp, Journal Staff Writer
TAOS— Country singer Lynn Anderson entered an innocent
plea through her attorney Friday on charges that she punched a
police officer after she was accused of swiping an unpaid-for
DVD copy of "Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban" from a
local grocery store.
Anderson, who was arrested Monday at the Smith's Food &
Drug Center, also received permission from Taos County
Magistrate Betty Martinez to seek medical treatment out of
state.
Anderson's attorney, Brigitte Ursula Lotze, waived
Anderson's arraignment. It had been scheduled for Friday
morning.
Lotze said in a telephone interview later Friday that
Anderson deserves Taoseños' respect and prayers.
"Ms. Anderson is a loved and respected member of the
Taos community," Lotze said.
Martinez said during a news conference Friday morning in
her courtroom that a preliminary hearing of the allegations
against Anderson will take place within 60 days.
Anderson is facing two charges stemming from the arrest:
battery on a police officer, a fourth-degree felony, and
resisting a police officer, which is a misdemeanor. She is also
facing a petty misdemeanor on the shoplifting count, according
to court documents.
The magistrate said she didn't know why Anderson was
seeking medical treatment.
Anderson appears bruised in a mug shot taken by Taos
Police on Monday.
She was charged with drunken driving in early December
after police in Denton, Texas, found her passed out in a car on
the shoulder of a highway. She was released on a $1,000 bond
then. An editor at the Denton Record-Chronicle newspaper said
earlier this week that no resolution of Anderson's DWI charge
has been reported.
According to a statement of probable cause filed in
Magistrate Court by Taos police officer Virgil Vigil, Anderson
used obscenities when speaking to a Smith's employee while she
was in the presence of Vigil, who then advised her to calm down.
Anderson asked Vigil, "Do you know who I am?" after
refusing to sign a citation for violation of an ordinance after
Smith's employees accused her of taking the DVD, Vigil's
probable-cause statement said.
The citation is not an admission of guilt, according to
the statement filed by Vigil. However, refusing to sign it
usually brings an arrest, which was true in Anderson's case,
according to Vigil's probable-cause statement.
Anderson allegedly balked several times when she was
asked to go to the police officer's vehicle, and when Vigil
asked if she was resisting arrest, "Ms. Anderson turned and
punched me on my left forearm."
Anderson is a Grammy winner for her 1970s hit "Rose
Garden."
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mo_flixx
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 12:55 am Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
Lynn Anderson has checked into a rehab. facility according to www.taosnews.com

I wish her all the best for a full recovery.
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daffy
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:47 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 1939 Location: Wall Street
Marantz, I'm one ex-smoker who's sense of smell and taste are far better now than they were before I quit.

chillywilly wrote:
In the end, I would rather the majority, not the minority, have to make some expections instead of simply inflicting their way of life onto others, even if that means having to deal with smoke-filled clubs and bars. Because, it's still someone's choice to go to a bar or not go to a bar, regardless of it's smoky content.

While I understand your sentiment, chilly, I would rather the minority not inflict their unhealthy habit on the majority. It's still someone's choice to pick up that first cigarette. They made the mistake in becoming an addict; why the hell should I pay for it by having to breathe it, and why should I be inconvenienced by it by having to avoid a public place I want to go?

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daffy
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 1:59 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 1939 Location: Wall Street
I found this fascinating. It brings up a number of things that I hadn't really considered much before:

Quote:
"But today, as Iraqis vote in their first modern election, the war in Iraq is also transforming the Middle East and its relations with the United States in directions the Bush administration might not have expected.

Even many of the region's skeptics about the war say Iraq might, in the end, build a relatively stable democracy. But some of America's most steadfast allies, knowing how shaky their own hold on power is, fear that the Iraqi insurgency may encourage violent anti-government dissidents or Islamic militants in their own countries....

Two questions are on their [many ordinary Arabs'] minds: Even if democracy takes root and grows in Iraq, will a more stable Middle East follow? And if civil war consumes Iraq, how quickly will instability engulf its neighbors? [emphasis mine]

"We had the power to reshuffle the deck of cards in the Middle East," said Shibley Telhami, the Anwar Sadat professor for peace and development at the University of Maryland. "But we never had the power to make sure how they would fall."

Beyond the general concern about instability is a shared concern in Sunni-ruled countries - Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the smaller oil-rich states of the Persian Gulf - that the greatest beneficiary of the war so far has been not Iraq, but Shiite-dominated Iran. Empowering Iraq's Shiite majority, they fear, will embolden Shiites elsewhere to challenge their own ruling Sunni Muslim classes. This, in turn, could encourage a spread of Iranian influence that was held in check by Iraq when it was ruled by Sunni kings and dictators."


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/30/weekinreview/30weis.html?hp&ex=1107061200&en=529956c21a590954&ei=5094&partner=homepage

_________________
"I have been known, on occasion, to howl at the moon."

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/index.html
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daffy
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:00 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 1939 Location: Wall Street
I found this fascinating. It brings up a number of things that I hadn't really considered much before:

Quote:
"But today, as Iraqis vote in their first modern election, the war in Iraq is also transforming the Middle East and its relations with the United States in directions the Bush administration might not have expected.

Even many of the region's skeptics about the war say Iraq might, in the end, build a relatively stable democracy. But some of America's most steadfast allies, knowing how shaky their own hold on power is, fear that the Iraqi insurgency may encourage violent anti-government dissidents or Islamic militants in their own countries....

Two questions are on their [many ordinary Arabs'] minds: Even if democracy takes root and grows in Iraq, will a more stable Middle East follow? And if civil war consumes Iraq, how quickly will instability engulf its neighbors? [emphasis mine]

"We had the power to reshuffle the deck of cards in the Middle East," said Shibley Telhami, the Anwar Sadat professor for peace and development at the University of Maryland. "But we never had the power to make sure how they would fall."

Beyond the general concern about instability is a shared concern in Sunni-ruled countries - Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the smaller oil-rich states of the Persian Gulf - that the greatest beneficiary of the war so far has been not Iraq, but Shiite-dominated Iran. Empowering Iraq's Shiite majority, they fear, will embolden Shiites elsewhere to challenge their own ruling Sunni Muslim classes. This, in turn, could encourage a spread of Iranian influence that was held in check by Iraq when it was ruled by Sunni kings and dictators."


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/30/weekinreview/30weis.html?hp&ex=1107061200&en=529956c21a590954&ei=5094&partner=homepage

_________________
"I have been known, on occasion, to howl at the moon."

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/index.html
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daffy
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:01 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 1939 Location: Wall Street
I found this fascinating. It brings up a number of things that I hadn't really considered much before:

Quote:
"But today, as Iraqis vote in their first modern election, the war in Iraq is also transforming the Middle East and its relations with the United States in directions the Bush administration might not have expected.

Even many of the region's skeptics about the war say Iraq might, in the end, build a relatively stable democracy. But some of America's most steadfast allies, knowing how shaky their own hold on power is, fear that the Iraqi insurgency may encourage violent anti-government dissidents or Islamic militants in their own countries....

Two questions are on their [many ordinary Arabs'] minds: Even if democracy takes root and grows in Iraq, will a more stable Middle East follow? And if civil war consumes Iraq, how quickly will instability engulf its neighbors? [emphasis mine]

"We had the power to reshuffle the deck of cards in the Middle East," said Shibley Telhami, the Anwar Sadat professor for peace and development at the University of Maryland. "But we never had the power to make sure how they would fall."

Beyond the general concern about instability is a shared concern in Sunni-ruled countries - Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and the smaller oil-rich states of the Persian Gulf - that the greatest beneficiary of the war so far has been not Iraq, but Shiite-dominated Iran. Empowering Iraq's Shiite majority, they fear, will embolden Shiites elsewhere to challenge their own ruling Sunni Muslim classes. This, in turn, could encourage a spread of Iranian influence that was held in check by Iraq when it was ruled by Sunni kings and dictators."


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/30/weekinreview/30weis.html?hp&ex=1107061200&en=529956c21a590954&ei=5094&partner=homepage

_________________
"I have been known, on occasion, to howl at the moon."

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/index.html
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daffy
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:02 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 1939 Location: Wall Street
Hey, a triple!! How the hell did that happen?

Sorry.

_________________
"I have been known, on occasion, to howl at the moon."

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/index.html
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chillywilly
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:14 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 8251 Location: Salt Lake City
daffy wrote:
While I understand your sentiment, chilly, I would rather the minority not inflict their unhealthy habit on the majority. It's still someone's choice to pick up that first cigarette. They made the mistake in becoming an addict; why the hell should I pay for it by having to breathe it, and why should I be inconvenienced by it by having to avoid a public place I want to go?

You make a good point, daffy and personally, I don't see an easy answer to any of this. It's true it's a chosen habit and because of that choice, it's very easy to tell the smoker to take their business somewhere else.

When I used to hang around others that didn't smoke, I always respected their wishes if they asked me not to smoke. I would find another place to go have a smoke, then come back and socialize.

But I have to admit, there is something that's always been associated with drinking and having a smoke. Maybe that culture and mindset is changing, but it's something that's been going on for years and years and I don't see it going away quickly.

While I hate having smoke being inflicted on me, I equally hate the idea of some sort of "us vs. them" issue, regardless of the habit choice.

Maybe I would feel stronger about a ban if every time I saw someone light up, I felt I had to have one. But that isn't the case.

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"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend"
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McBain
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:19 am Reply with quote
Joined: 26 May 2004 Posts: 1987 Location: Boston
Sorry Gary, but no smoking in public places like a restaurant or bar is a no brainer and obviously in the public interest. It's a workers compensation issue if nothing else. Private smoke clubs can do what they want, but otherwise smoking really should be prohibited in most every public establishment. Smoking shouldn't be illegal, but its gotta be carefully regulated.

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A life, Jimmy. You know what that is? It's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come.
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bocce
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:13 am Reply with quote
Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 2428
Marc wrote:
Quote:
hippiemac's comments are superfluous and innane.


so, we have something in common, asshole.


LOL!!! as george c. scott tells the russian interpreter in PATTON: "yeah, okay. tell him i'll drink to that".
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mo_flixx
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:02 am Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
McBain wrote:
Sorry Gary, but no smoking in public places like a restaurant or bar is a no brainer and obviously in the public interest. It's a workers compensation issue if nothing else. Private smoke clubs can do what they want, but otherwise smoking really should be prohibited in most every public establishment. Smoking shouldn't be illegal, but its gotta be carefully regulated.


I agree that it is a public HEALTH issue. Workers, non-smokers, and in many cases children are being exposed.
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