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| chillywilly |
 Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:09 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8251
Location: Salt Lake City
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shannon wrote: Choice cuts:
Quote: ...Maybe the biggest problem with Atomic Bomb is just that it sounds so much like U2, and their semi-absurd, totally unparalleled ubiquity has left all of us just a tiny bit tired of listening to things that sound like U2. ..
Which pretty much could have been summed up with one line:
If you think U2 should have stopped making music after "Joshua Tree," then you aren't going to like anything new they have put out in the last 17 years.
Reminds me of my brother-in-law, who is 53 and doesn't think any piece of music written after 1975 should have ever been written. |
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Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
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| chillywilly |
| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:24 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8251
Location: Salt Lake City
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Mr. Brownstone wrote: And chilly's right. Even people who don't like Guns n Roses admit Appetite for Destruction is a classic album. Some argue that it's the best album of heavy metal, some argue that it's the best debut album ever, and some, like me, argue that no record has gotten closer to the genuine spirit of rock n roll in all its glory and fucked-upness, and therefore, is the greatest rock album ever.
Actually, my emphasis in bold is something I would mostly agree with.
I think I've posted this out here before, but it's several hundred posts away... I hated AFD when it first came out. My nephew, then 13, had it and it just didn't ring with me. Same with Pearl Jam's "Ten"... thought it was stupid. But the more I forced myself to listen, the more I liked these two albums.
For me, I don't think AFD is any better than TEN, as far as debut albums go. I consider both the top two in my list of debut albums where the entire album is good from start to finish every single time.
There are other debut albums that are up there like THE CARS first release, LED ZEPPELIN, but there's something about AFD and TEN that changed how future bands and music would follow.
At least IMO. |
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Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
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| chillywilly |
| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:14 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Salt Lake City
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censored-03 wrote: You and Chilly have a lot of listening to do if you guys think so. Bands like the little remembered Humble Pie and Mitch Ryder and the Detroit Wheels had more of the swaggering rock thing your talking about in their pinky's than Guns-n-Poseurs had in their entire repertoire and act, which it so obviously was..an act.
I don't have any arugument that there are some great bands that preceded GnR that are much better, based on anyone's personal or collective musical tastes. And I love bands like Humble Pie and Cream... artists like Hendrix, Robert Johnson, Dylan. But I think the argument and defense that Brownstone is offering here is that AFD was a legendary album that stands the test of time. It joins other albums that were released at their time in history that changed how music further progressed.
The reason Marc mentions the Axl meltdown is because that's personally the moment of GnR history that he chooses to remember. And for me, the current lineup of GnR is a fucking joke.
Remembering Axl for his warped fucked up state vs. his other accomplishments is very much like people remembering only Clinton and his blow job gone wrong. He was president for 8 years... had to do something else besides getting blown in the oval office by some inexperienced intern.
censored-03 wrote: GnR were more like Poison, Ratt, Kix and Enuff's Enuff for chrissake! Slash is a one-trick-pony on guitar. He noodles a couple of descending scales in every song at the same rate a hundred mediocre guys did before him. Axl's voice is only less annoying and affected than that weirdo from Rush..please!
I take it you were not much of a fan of any hair bands or anything that Rush did in their 30 years together.
censored-03 wrote: Scott Weiland is now in a band that is good for a couple of kicks, mostly because there are so few bands doing what they do right now. You could pick any song from Stone Temple Pilots one album like Tiny Music..from the Vatican Gift Shop and find better, more haunting, original, ballsy, exciting and modern key word modern material than anything his new band has done. Weiland has definitely come down a notch or ten joinig Velvet Revolver.
I'm on the fence about this one. I think the world of Scott and personally, nothing comes close to greatness (for him)than his work on the Purple album. His current work with Velvet Revolver is very good and I have to admit, he's staying clean and doing better than I would have given him odds on. He and Robert Downey Jr. are the Rehab Twins of Hollywood and I really hope they both survive.
Regardless, Scott's at the top of his game, both personally and professionally. I still like his STP stuff a bit more, but that's because it's got years of head start. I'm sure once VR has 3-4 albums under their belt, people will have a bit more respect for their work and will shake the "GnR has-been" status and monikers.
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Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
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| Macca00 |
| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:06 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
Posts: 390
Location: Liverpool/England
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Love the thought of Dylan & Tom Waits together in "Waiting For Godot". Hollywood should offer the two squillions (or complete production control) to set the ball rolling.
How about Van Morrison & Michael Stipe in a re-make of "The Odd Couple", with Van The Man taking Walter Matthau's role? |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:16 pm |
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Macca00, as I wrote it I thought, 'This isn't such a crazy idea.' Shit. Let's pitch this thing. I'll handle the American side and you take care of the British production. It even seems like something that the two of them would go for. We could let them put a couple of numbers in.
OK who's got Dylan's and Wait's contact numbers? |
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| Macca00 |
| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:50 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
Posts: 390
Location: Liverpool/England
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| censored-03 |
| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:44 am |
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Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 3058
Location: Gotham, Big Apple, The Naked City
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Accept, AC/DC, Agnostic Front, Anthrax, Armored Saint, Bad Brains, Bathery, Black Flag, Bon Jovi , Celtic Frost, Cinderella, Cro Mags, Danzig, Def Leppard, Diamonhead, Dio, Dokken, Dream Theater, Faith No More, Faster Pussycat, Fates Warning, Grim Reaper, Great White, Grim Reaper, Guns 'N Roses, Guar, Helix, Helloween, Helmet, Icon, Iron Maiden, Jane’s Addiction, Judas Priest, Keel, King Diamond, King’s X, Kiss, Kixx, Krokus, L.A. Guns, Living Color, Lizzy Borden, Loudness, Yngwie Malmsteen, Manowar, Megadeth, Mercyful Faith, Metal Church, Metallica, Ministry, Motley Crue, Motorhead, Ozzy Osbourne, Poison, Queensryche, Quiet Riot, Ratt, Raven, Rollins Band, Sammy Hagar, Savatage, Scorpions, Skid Row, Slayer, Soundgarden, St. Vitus, Suicidal Tendancies, Tesla, The Cult, Van Halen, Venom, Voivod, Warlock, Warrant, W.A.S.P., White Lion, Whitesnake, Y&T, Zebra
These are just some of the hair/non-hair metal and almost metal bands I listened to in the 80’s (mostly professionally in the studio or being with friends who played the shit outta this stuff, I went to a few shows bought a few record as well) and I just think that Guns and Roses are one of them not any better or worse. I will say that most of these bands had little impact on me as anything really innovative. For the most part they had marvelously proficient musicians and hella insane singers who could rip your socks off, including Axl. I was friendly in passing with a couple of guys from Anthrax when we used the same studio for rehearsals..fun guys. This wasn’t my preferred music to listen to then but I had compilation tapes up the wazzoo. Faves were “Warning” by Queensryche, little Udo Dirkschneider from Accept, I have to admit I liked the poppy “Round and Round” by Ratt and a couple by Kixx. I really dug a song by Raven called “100 Miles An Hour” on a 4 song record I bought of them. The friend of mine who had a whole group of his friends listening to darker stuff turned me on to the sicker stuff like Celtic Frost, Bathery, St. Vitus, Fates Warning, Helloween etc. I also had an A&R woman who was in charge of my band who had signed Grim Reaper so we went to some of there shows and parties. A band I played in called 10 More Inches gigged with Helmet and that was fun. I love anything by Motorhead that's my type of metal.."Ace of Spades" and "Killed by Death" are genius rock songs. What was Redd Kross’ music style called ? I bought a record by them impulsively back then as well as liking a couple of pop/metal songs by Enuffs Z-Enuff (spelling). I was always basically turned off by the pomp and what I consider pseudo swagger of most of these types of acts. I actually cringe (along with a whole school of NYC downtown rockers of whom I was a member of) when somebody yells “rock-n-roll" to an audience and cringe even more when I see audiences and bands give eachother that wimpiest of contact hand gestures the ever-present devil sign with the hands. Give me a fuckin’ break !  Not my cup of tea. |
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| censored-03 |
| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:54 am |
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Joined: 24 May 2004
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Location: Gotham, Big Apple, The Naked City
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| Chilly as far as Rush they were a fringe act to me in their hayday, I heard them on the FM radio a lot. I didn't love them but couldn't deny their catchiness. The singers voice being the least likable factor to me. (brownstone the resemblance to Axl is the squeekiness and whiiiiineyness) I didn't know his name for years. They are good musicians and Lifeson and particularly Neil Pert are innovative. I was originally a drummer and totally appreciate Pert's genius. I even bought an album (on cassette) called Roll the Bones I think about '91 or '92 ? Damn good for the most part..but not a seminal group in my opinion. |
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| jeremy |
| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:14 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6794
Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
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HTDAAB is a return to the old U2, which is good and bad:
Soaring, magnificent, swaggering, unashamedly self-important, bombastic.
I quite liked it.
Last Tuesday, U2 did a concert in their Dublin studio for BBC Radio 1 and 25 guests - DJs, competition winners etc.. It was brilliant. |
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| censored-03 |
| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:41 am |
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Joined: 24 May 2004
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Location: Gotham, Big Apple, The Naked City
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| chillywilly |
| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:45 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Salt Lake City
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censored-03 wrote: Accept, AC/DC, Agnostic Front, Anthrax, Armored Saint, Bad Brains, Bathery, Black Flag, Bon Jovi , Celtic Frost, Cinderella, Cro Mags, Danzig, Def Leppard, Diamonhead, Dio, Dokken, Dream Theater, Faith No More, Faster Pussycat, Fates Warning, Grim Reaper, Great White, Grim Reaper, Guns 'N Roses, Guar, Helix, Helloween, Helmet, Icon, Iron Maiden, Jane’s Addiction, Judas Priest, Keel, King Diamond, King’s X, Kiss, Kixx, Krokus, L.A. Guns, Living Color, Lizzy Borden, Loudness, Yngwie Malmsteen, Manowar, Megadeth, Mercyful Faith, Metal Church, Metallica, Ministry, Motley Crue, Motorhead, Ozzy Osbourne, Poison, Queensryche, Quiet Riot, Ratt, Raven, Rollins Band, Sammy Hagar, Savatage, Scorpions, Skid Row, Slayer, Soundgarden, St. Vitus, Suicidal Tendancies, Tesla, The Cult, Van Halen, Venom, Voivod, Warlock, Warrant, W.A.S.P., White Lion, Whitesnake, Y&T, Zebra
These are just some of the hair/non-hair metal and almost metal bands I listened to in the 80’s (mostly professionally in the studio or being with friends who played the shit outta this stuff, I went to a few shows bought a few record as well) and I just think that Guns and Roses are one of them not any better or worse.
I'd say the bands I bolded would be considered almost metal bands and really more rock or punk or alternative (in some cases like Faith No More) then anything. The unbolded bands would, IMO, be more metal or hair bands.
But I see your point about GnR, even if I don't 100% agree with it. But I have to say I liked the comment about Ratt, who happens to be one of my fav. hair bands (Poison is another one of my favs.)
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"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
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| chillywilly |
| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:39 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Salt Lake City
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censored-03 wrote: Chilly as far as Rush they were a fringe act to me in their hayday, I heard them on the FM radio a lot. I didn't love them but couldn't deny their catchiness. The singers voice being the least likable factor to me. (brownstone the resemblance to Axl is the squeekiness and whiiiiineyness) I didn't know his name for years. They are good musicians and Lifeson and particularly Neil Pert are innovative. I was originally a drummer and totally appreciate Pert's genius. I even bought an album (on cassette) called Roll the Bones I think about '91 or '92 ? Damn good for the most part..but not a seminal group in my opinion.
Good to hear that you are not panning Rush as a bunch of "has beens". Roll The Bones was a very good album and there are some whiney aspects of Geddy Lee's vocals, no more than Billy Corgan provides in most of his vocals (btw, I like Billy and his work).
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"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
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| chris563 |
| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:22 pm |
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Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 50
Location: SF CA USA
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| doubtless Rush's early work is their best but their later stuff is unfairly maligned. Presto & Roll The Bones are solid albums that stand up quite well vs their contemporaries. actually I even saw them on the roll the bones tour, eric johnson opened |
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| unohoo |
| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 3:16 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
Posts: 210
Location: Houston, Tx
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The only reason I didn't pick up that U2 yesterday was because they had that dumb shit packaged with a dvd for $20 bucks. Fu-huck that. Ended up buying Gwen Stefani's record instead which is surprisingly good. Don't know what it is about that chick, but I've always liked No Doubt and her single is yummy enough to invest in a solo album. I was surprised at who she enlisted to produce the album: Andre 3000, The Neptunes, Dr. Dre, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, Dallas Austin (sounds like a hip-hop record so far), Tony Kanal (tha's that bass player dude right?), Nelle Hooper and Johnny Vulture. As much as I kind of hate the rehashing of the eighties that seems to be going on now in rock/pop, this album is pretty good. The pop aesthetic is maintained throughout, but Stefani can be funky when she wants to.
I finally saw two Green Day videos, sounded like the same old Green Day that got them famous. Fu-huck that too. |
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| unohoo |
| Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2004 3:24 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
Posts: 210
Location: Houston, Tx
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| The U2 pitchfork review is some smarmy hipster bullshit. Whole paragraph's are written and wasn't shit said about the music, I'm surprised he didn't mention that you can't jump from 3 to 14 when counting in Spanish. |
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