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| Marc |
 Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:39 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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Quote: I hope my sarcasm detector is properly beeping on this comment.
It is.
My point was that in the wake of Madonna leaving him, Ritchie did not start churning out masterpieces. In fact, I predict he'll never make another good movie. And it will have nothing to do with Madonna. |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:41 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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Quote: I have my own "personal experience" Madonna stories, which are markedly different from the sweetness and light described above.
I showed you mine, you show me yours. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:59 pm |
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| I just picked up Rock'N Rolla. |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:36 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:01 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: New York City
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Marc wrote: Quote: I have my own "personal experience" Madonna stories, which are markedly different from the sweetness and light described above.
I showed you mine, you show me yours.
Can't without revealing my source, but he is an impeccable eyewitness and theater/rock person who worked hand in glove with the Allman Brothers and never had a bad word to say about them. Madonna, on the other hand, was a negative presence in a job situation. |
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| Syd |
| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:23 pm |
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Site Admin
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 12929
Location: Norman, Oklahoma
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| I never thought Madonna was sweetness and light. I thought she was a rather tough-minded businesswoman as well as being a singer who knew how to get the utmost out of a rather limited voice. It's not just what you have but how you use it. |
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Rocky Laocoon foretold of Troy's doom, only to find snaky water. They pulled him in and Rocky can't swim. Now Rocky wishes he were an otter! |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:59 am |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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For the record, I never said Madonna was all sweetness and light. I'm sure she could be an asshole just like the rest of us. But, if you listen to the people she has artistically collaborated with over the years few have any complaints. Maybe it's because she made them a lot of money. She's a pro and she has very high standards in terms of her production teams and stage show. Her biggest failing has been her attempts at movie stardom. I haven't seen everything she's done on film, but of what I have seen, she ain't much of an actress. Though, she was very good in Desperately Seeking Susan, which was directed by my friend Susan Seidelman. Susan was on my bowling team, The Flowers Of Evil, and had nothing but nice things to say about working with Madonna.
Billy, I was hanging around the whole downtown club scene in the late 1970s and early 80s (Danceteria, The Mudd Club, Berlin, etc.) and Madonna was a young club presence at the time. She would perform to backing tracks at Danceteria to small crowds of less than enthusiastic cokeheads, bridge and tunnelers and proto-hipsters. What always impressed me about her was her determination. She wasn't into drugs or alcohol. She took care of herself and was disciplined. In many ways, she's a great example of what a young person can accomplish through sheer will and practice. She attracted the right people (influential deejays, producers and record execs) because they saw something in her that was marketable. People don't invest time and money into empty vessels. Obviously, she had that special spark.
You may not like her, but to discount her fame as some sham is bullshit. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:42 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: New York City
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Marc--I guess I haven't been completely clear. I do not discount Madonna's success as a sham. I admire her determination, but from seemingly neutral accounts, she's been ruthless to a degree that is pretty out there, as well as often unpleasant. She has a lot of talent, but I think it's more in the marketing and publicity area than in the music area. And as I said, she has had an astounding ability to choose commercial material and get it produced right.
What I may not have said is that I love her records. In that respect I am a Madonna fan. It's when I hear her sing devoid of production value that I am semi-appalled. Her voice is weak and her pitch is faulty. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 6:55 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: New York City
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| I guess what pushed me into confrontation was your insistence that any criticism of Madonna from "older men"--that would be me unless I'm much mistaken--constituted "fear of strong women." On that I can definitely call bullshit myself. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:11 am |
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| Billy, great picture (avatar). |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:12 am |
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I'll soon find out.
I saw Revolver, (I don't remember where or when, but it wasn't long ago) and it was a mess. |
Last edited by marantzo on Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:18 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: New York City
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marantzo wrote: Billy, great picture (avatar).
Thanks. Dolores took it yesterday and we both loved it immediately. |
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| bartist |
| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:48 am |
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Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 6961
Location: Black Hills
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Surprised no one invoked the classic feminist "madonna or a whore" quote.
Watched 30 minutes of "Tank Girl" the other night. I know this is supposed to be a British cult classic, but I found it unwatchable. Contains early appearance of Naomi Watts (the only reason I lasted 30 minutes). Based on a British comic book series, set in some sort of post-apock future where water is scarce and Malcolm McDowell is incredibly evil and can hook up a dehydrator device to an underling who performs poorly and suck out all his body-water and then drink it and smack his lips happily. Lori Petty is some kind of feminist superhero with chemotherapy hair. Maybe this chat prompted me to think of Tank Girl, because I was imagining how improved the film would be by having Cindy Lauper in the title role. |
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He was wise beyond his years, but only by a few days. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:53 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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| My comments on Lori Petty appeared several days ago. Seldom have I felt such a disconnect between an actress and real life. Petty is ineffective and borderline unattractive on screen, yet as "herself" she is galvanizing and immediately attractive--an out lesbian with an uncompromising but articulate, punkish, but still engaging agenda. |
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| bartist |
| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:56 am |
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Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 6961
Location: Black Hills
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| Ahh. The name didn't click when you talked about her earlier, but now it does. I see she has small town Iowa roots. That's a transcendent arc, right there. |
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He was wise beyond his years, but only by a few days. |
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