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| Syd |
 Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:46 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 12929
Location: Norman, Oklahoma
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| I liked Ritchie's take on Sherlock Holmes, but I haven't seen anything else by him. |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:51 am |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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Blaming Guy Ritchie's disintegration as a director on Madonna is sexist in the extreme.
Ritchie has always been a one-trick pony while Madonna's creative journey has been multi-faceted and always fascinating. Her album "Ray Of Light" is an absolute masterpiece. Madonna bashing is hip among older men who just seem to be threatened by strong women. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:08 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: New York City
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Marc wrote: Blaming Guy Ritchie's disintegration as a director on Madonna is sexist in the extreme.
Ritchie has always been a one-trick pony while Madonna's creative journey has been multi-faceted and always fascinating. Her album "Ray Of Light" is an absolute masterpiece. Madonna bashing is hip among older men who just seem to be threatened by strong women.
Bullshit. And again I say bullshit. I am an older man who is not threatened by strong women and who can still say unequivocally that Madonna is a supremely overrated talent.
First, she is one of the world's worst actresses. (And I know. I saw her in Speed the Plow on Broadway as well as several movies in which she turned the screen into a black hole. And don't come back at me with "She was great in Desperately Seeking Susan." I don't think she was great, just okay, and anyway that was a fluke. In A League of Their Own, the only other movie she was halfway decent in, she had a small and unchallenging character role which she was suited for.)
Second, although she has a huge talent for self-promotion and marketing, as well as an even bigger talent for choosing material--her songs are brilliant; the recording of them is brilliant--her voice is horrible. She is not worthy to lick Cyndi Lauper's shoes. (I cite Lauper because they are often mentioned in the same sentence, having become famous at roughly the same time and share largely the same constituency.) Her voice is small and tinny and when heard "live" as opposed to on a fine-tuned and overproduced recording is shown to be the unimpressive instrument it is.
Plus--don't ask--she's a rotten human being, but that really doesn't matter except that it does. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:12 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: New York City
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| Ask Joe Mantegna and (in a seance) the late Ron Silver whether they are threatened by "strong women" or just "lousy actors." They co-starred with Madonna in Speed the Plow and managed to make it through each evening's performance--Silver even won the Tony--despite having to partner with a rank amateur. They were both very happy when M's replacement, Felicity Huffman, took over the role. |
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| bartist |
| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:14 am |
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Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 6961
Location: Black Hills
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| Welcome to this year's Madonna Roundtable. This year, the topic is "Madonna: Self-Promoting Talentless Hack, or Supremely Multifaceted Creative Genius?" |
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He was wise beyond his years, but only by a few days. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:00 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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| Have to amend my "overproduced" description of Madonna's recordings. They're not really overproduced--they are tinged with genius--but they are really "produced" to hide M's lack of vocal nuance. |
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| whiskeypriest |
| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:27 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 6916
Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
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bartist wrote: Welcome to this year's Madonna Roundtable. This year, the topic is "Madonna: Self-Promoting Talentless Hack, or Supremely Multifaceted Creative Genius?" |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:04 am |
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If I'm threatened by strong women I must have been quaking with fear when I married my wife. And my late wife also.
I guess it's a strange coincidence that the few movies he made when he and Madonna were together were crap and since they parted he made good movies again.
I agree with Billy and he knows that. Cyndi Lauper is a real talent whereas Madonna is a manufactured one. And Lauper is actually a good actress. |
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| bartist |
| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:14 am |
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Joined: 27 Apr 2010
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Quote: If I'm threatened by strong women I must have been quaking with fear when I married my wife.
Ditto. My ex-wife is always walking/biking through dangerous neighborhoods....and I would pity anyone who tried to mess with her.
WP -- works for me. |
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He was wise beyond his years, but only by a few days. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:40 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: New York City
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marantzo wrote: Lauper is actually a good actress.
Word. Check out her chemistry with Christopher Walken in the little-seen, not-great, but very interesting (unfortunately not available from Netflix) The Opportunists. She's a real actress, and a good one, as noted. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:29 pm |
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| Oh yeah, I forgot to mention, Cyndi Lauper is someone I'd consider a strong woman. I've never been threatened by her. |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:33 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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Quote: Blaming Guy Ritchie's disintegration as a director on Madonna is sexist in the extreme.
Not a single one of you addressed the above statement. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:03 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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| The fact that Madonna is a woman has nothing to do with it. Are you suggesting that someone's relationship has nothing to do with their creativity? She's a narcissist in the extreme and that has to impact her effect on him. |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:30 pm |
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Quote: The fact that Madonna is a woman has nothing to do with it. Are you suggesting that someone's relationship has nothing to do with their creativity? She's a narcissist in the extreme and that has to impact her effect on him.
Oh please. Give me an example of a superstar who isn't a narcissist.
The notion that a woman can steal a man's creative mojo sounds like something from the middle ages.
Turmoil in love relationships is one of the richest veins to be tapped into for an artist.
Guy Ritchie couldn't keep his cock in his pants. He cheated on Madonna and she sent him packing. And he walked away with about $50 million of her money. Poor baby.
After being dumped by his wife, Ritchie, the highly regarded auteur, regained his artistic chops and made the masterpiece Sherlock Holmes.
Regarding Madonna's voice: it doesn't fucking matter. It doesn't matter for Dylan, Jagger, Leonard Cohen, Tom Waits and countless other music performers. What matters is whether or not their music moves people, makes them feel something, excites them, entertains them. And what the fuck is wrong with being a successful self-promoter. No one attacks Mick Jagger, Rod Stewart (a total hack) or David Bowie for being successful business men. Madonna is a success and it didn't happen by accident or good luck. She worked at it, puts on a great show and millions of people love her. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:48 pm |
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Marc, you think Madonna is some kind of wonderful. Fine, but many think she is a phony self promoting bitch (myself included). Sure she is a great businesswoman but you compare her voice to Dylan, Jagger, Leonard Cohen, and Tom Waits. Who of these singer songwriters only put out records that were overlaid with multiple technical enhancements. Even Jagger had some of his hits with no enhancements to camouflage his voice. Dylan, Cohen, Waits all get along just fine with their unenhanced voices. To even put Madonna in the company of these giants is laughable. For me anyway.
Sexist? Not on your life. I can think of men who have screwed up their wive's productivity also. James Cameron is a good example. Another self promoting egotist, though talented. |
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