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| lshap |
 Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:48 am |
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Billy - I agree with you about WW. Not because it wasn't entertaining; it kinda was. And not because it wasn't funny; it often was. But I found WW to be an unrelentingly bitter finger-wagging lecture on life, disguised as a comedic frolic. Woody used to love New Yorkers, but Whatever Works was contemptuous of them.
And all the verbal gymnastics on the planet couldn't make Larry David attractive to a 20-something girl, but I'd rather not remember that right before lunch.
My comparisons of those three films were meant as an observation on Woody's apparent state of mind in each. On their merits alone, You Will Meet a Tall Dark Stranger is worlds better than Whatever Works, but not as focused, well-acted, passionate, original and outright exotic as Vicky Cristina Barcelona. |
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| lshap |
| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:58 am |
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bartist wrote: Quote: I was left with one critical thought: there's a gap between the reason for this alternate reality and the enforcement of it. How and why does it work? It's never explained, and the practical unworkability nagged at me. But only a bit. The story is very effective as a metaphor, and it was very satisfying on that level alone.
Lorne, I'd be interested to see how overseas audiences see this, as compared to U.S. -- because (also just saw it), I found the passivity of the characters kind of annoying. Ishiguro is British, but I felt his Japan roots were showing here, as we see that submitting to a social order, to an assigned destiny, is seen much more favorably than in western culture. As a heartland Yank, I found the premise to be very hard to accept, as either speculative sci-fi or just metaphor.
I see your point, and I think that would've been a fatal flaw had the film been made in the U.S. with American actors. We're conditioned to see Americans as much more assertive, even if they often may not be.
For what it's worth, the film did allude to some systematic level of control. Those wrist monitors, for example. But yeah, the premise demands an acceptance of different social orders.
Still, the whole thing seemed to coalesce perfectly in the very last monologue, in the very last lines. Something like (spoiler in white):
"In the end, there's not much different between us and anyone else. Everyone 'completes'. And in the end, maybe we all feel like we didn't have enough time together."
For me, that made the metaphor complete and poignantly sad. And I recognize that this might make me a sentimental moron. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:35 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: New York City
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lshap wrote: Billy - I agree with you about WW. Not because it wasn't entertaining; it kinda was. And not because it wasn't funny; it often was. But I found WW to be an unrelentingly bitter finger-wagging lecture on life, disguised as a comedic frolic. Woody used to love New Yorkers, but Whatever Works was contemptuous of them.
And all the verbal gymnastics on the planet couldn't make Larry David attractive to a 20-something girl, but I'd rather not remember that right before lunch.
My comparisons of those three films were meant as an observation on Woody's apparent state of mind in each. On their merits alone, You Will Meet a Tall Dark Stranger is worlds better than Whatever Works, but not as focused, well-acted, passionate, original and outright exotic as Vicky Cristina Barcelona.
You're right about Larry David and a 20-something girl, and about the relative merits of VCB and YWMATDS, but I found nothing whatsoever to recommend about Whatever Works. It was an ancient script from the Allen trunk, originally written for Zero Mostel, and it showed.
Then again, I really can't say for sure since I couldn't even manage to get through the first half hour of WW. |
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| lshap |
| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:24 pm |
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| Zero Mostel? Old script? Is that like a Weeden-class metaphor or are you serious? |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:22 pm |
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lshap wrote: Zero Mostel? Old script? Is that like a Weeden-class metaphor or are you serious?
Totally serious. All true. |
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| lshap |
| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:30 pm |
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Just as an aside: with terrific starring roles in The Social Network and Never Let Me Go, Andrew Garfield is having the strongest one-two punch of any actor this year.
The 2012 reboot of Spider-Man will make him a megastar. |
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| Befade |
| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:42 pm |
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Very true........I only went because a friend wanted to see it to distract her from the horrendous election results. It worked for her. (She's no movie buff.) The only laugh I had was when Helen Mirren kicked off her high heels and put on combat boots. I did like Malkovich's underground home with access through the trunk of his car.
Quote: submitting to a social order, to an assigned destiny
very good point, Bart......in reference to Never Let Me Go which I read but am not compelled to see......probably because of the downer aspect. That author's books dwell on lack of communication/people putting up with just whatever comes their way without protest.
Whatever Works was one of Woody Allen's most unpleasant films with a most unlikeable character. You Will Meet a Tall Dark Stranger was his most enjoyable film that had the lightest touch. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:55 am |
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Befade wrote:
Whatever Works was one of Woody Allen's most unpleasant films with a most unlikeable character. You Will Meet a Tall Dark Stranger was his most enjoyable film that had the lightest touch.
Agree. As a matter of fact, it's my guess that YWMATDS will grow in stature as time goes on. It's the rare Allen movie I want to see for a second time. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:04 am |
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| Reviews for 127 Hours and Fair Game are coming out and they're mostly superb for both films. This supports Marc on the former and repudiates him on the latter. Not that it matters one whit, but we are tougher here, it seems, than critics in the mainstream tend to be. |
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| lshap |
| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:46 am |
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Befade wrote: Quote: submitting to a social order, to an assigned destiny
very good point, Bart......in reference to Never Let Me Go which I read but am not compelled to see......probably because of the downer aspect. That author's books dwell on lack of communication/people putting up with just whatever comes their way without protest.
Not quite true. This particular social order might be twisted, but it's imposed by the entire population, who is desperately motivated to keep it intact. Easy to say, "Just rebel!", but everyone else's lives depend on you not rebelling.
Again, that level of passivity was frustrating to watch, but there was an internal logic to the system, horrific as it was.
I have a feeling our society's internal logic would appear equally bizarre to outsiders. |
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| lshap |
| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:55 am |
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billyweeds wrote: Befade wrote:
Whatever Works was one of Woody Allen's most unpleasant films with a most unlikeable character. You Will Meet a Tall Dark Stranger was his most enjoyable film that had the lightest touch.
Agree. As a matter of fact, it's my guess that YWMATDS will grow in stature as time goes on. It's the rare Allen movie I want to see for a second time.
See, and I come to this debate from the opposite side, as maybe the biggest Woody Allen fan here, always ready to see his films twice. Yet I'm not getting the enthusiasm over this film. I did like it, but it doesn't rank up there among Woody's pantheon of great films, IMO.
For those who loved it, what parts did you love? |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:30 am |
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To be fair to Lorne, the mainstream critics were similarly divided on the quality of the film. Myself, though I basically agree with Betsy about the merits of YWMATDS, I don't say it's Woody's best or even one of his top five. But IMO it's definitely one of his only excellent films of the last ten or so years.
It's sort of like Husbands and Wives or Crimes and Misdemeanors. That is, it fits squarely into the "dramedy" genre--as opposed to the "comedy" (Bananas, Sleeper, Annie Hall, Take the Money and Run), "comedy-drama" (Manhattan, Vicky Cristina Barcelona, Hannah and Her Sisters), or (yuck) "drama" (Another Woman, Cassandra's Dream, September, Interiors) genres that Woody has made.
And it's a very fine example of the dramedy genre. The acting is wonderful right down the line. In particular by Josh Brolin, who has been establishing himself as one of our best character actors, but outdoes himself here with an utterly egoless portrayal of a total loser idiot, and yet on some level makes us care about him.
Lucy Punch, as the hooker wife of Anthony Hopkins, is brilliant. Naomi Watts takes a potentially thankless role and turns it into an acting lesson. Gemma Jones as her mother is bewitchingly ditzy. The movie is funny and sad and legitimately "ironic." And for once I don't care that the story goes nowhere. We really don't want there to be a typical "ending." Because scene by scene and moment to moment there is always something to enjoy and often something to be enlightened by. The film is misogynistic but in a frequently very funny way.
In short, one of Woody's top ten if not his top five. Oh, hell, here's my list:
1) Manhattan
2) Annie Hall
3) Zelig
4) Husbands and Wives
5) Everyone Says I Love You
6) Broadway Danny Rose
7) Vicky Cristina Barcelona
 You Will Meet a Tall Dark Stranger
9) Manhattan Murder Mystery
10) What's Up Tiger Lily?
(Side note: Why does 8 (the figure eight) come out as an emoticon?)
The dregs:
Hollywood Ending, Deconstructing Harry, Whatever Works, The Curse of the Jade Scorpion.
Overrated:
Sweet and Lowdown, Crimes and Misdemeanors, The Purple Rose of Cairo. |
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| bartist |
| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:04 am |
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Quote: Again, that level of passivity was frustrating to watch, but there was an internal logic to the system, horrific as it was.
I have a feeling our society's internal logic would appear equally bizarre to outsiders.
Like the "internal logic" of basic human rights? (I do agree that the metaphor, as you described it, with the idea that we all feel maybe our time together was too brief, works at that existential level....) The "internal logic" that slavery is barbarous and evil? The "internal logic" that it's not right to be raising babies up as meat to be have organs chopped out, as needed, until they die? I sometimes wonder if you Canadians have just had things a little too easy up there and maybe haven't quite absorbed the hard lessons yet.
Seriously, I did get your meaning of "internal logic," but I'm going out on a limb here and say that our society would not look quite so bizarre as the one in NLMG, unless the outsiders happened to be fascist Hive-Mind extraterrestrials.
Less seriously....a Canadian joke: How do you get 100 Canadians out of a swimming pool?
Say, "would everyone please get out of the pool?" |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:25 am |
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How do you spell Canada?
C-eh?-n-eh?-d-eh?
What Americans know about Canada; It's up north. |
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| carrobin |
| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:26 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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| Well, I did go to Toronto once. When Alan Bates did "The Master Builder" there. It was cold. |
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