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Befade
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:30 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 3686 Location: AZ
Maya Lin is into waves/hills. I think her latest work is a transformative landscape in New York state that features hills that look like waves on the ocean. In Columbus, Ohio she had a permanent outside installation made of broken glass that also looked like waves. Obviously.....she is a genuis.

I loved Me and You and Everyone We Know. In the SWEET FILM category.

There is a documentary called The Dust of Words about a brilliant, wealthy woman writer who becomes homeless due to her schizophrenic condition that she does not want to treat. She lived in a small community in California that took her under their wing.....similar to Lars. She depended on the library and the church. Very moving. People CAN be sensitive to others. There is a homeless man in this community who is familiar to everyone and treated kindly.

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Syd
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:41 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 12612 Location: Norman, Oklahoma
The Women's Table at Yale has the number of women in Yale each year spiraling out from the fountain head. It starts off with 170 zeroes. Since it's an open ended spiral, they can just add another number each year. Like the Civil Rights Memorial, it's under a sheet of water. One of the women at Yale was scandalized because one day she saw students walking on the table. She didn't mind the women getting their feet wet, but having the men do it seemed wrong to her.

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Joe Vitus
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 5:58 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
Marj wrote:
Tonight on CUNY TV - a show called "City Cinemateque" screened Liliom. There was a discussion afterward which really consisted of the host and one man from the Smithsonian in NY who talked about Fritz Lang and everyone involved with the making of the film; their backgrounds and the fact that everyone ended up in Hollywood, including the film's star, Charles Boyer.

Unfortunately, after the had gone through the credits, the earlier versions of the film and its incarnations on the stage - R&H were moved to do Carousel, not as a result of seeing this film but after seeing it on stage with Burgess Meredith and Ingrid Bergman, there were only a few minutes to discuss the film itself.

The main difference they found between this film and Carousel was the idea of suicide. Although they did discuss the erotic nature of Liliom, which they found highly so, especially in the opening carousel scene. But it was the arc, or lack thereof of Liliom himself, I found most interesting. He never really changes, grows or feels any remorse. It's our understanding of his character that does. Too bad they never got around to how Julie feels about him.

I wish they had more time, but it was still worth watching. Perhaps there was a tad too much pontificating but still it made for a worthwhile evening.


It sounds really good. You're right about Liliom's character not having an arc. It's worth pointing out that Molnar loved R&H's ending, and was a big supporter of their show.

By they way, how did the people discussing him pronounce Ferenc Molnar's first and last names?

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Marj
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:00 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
Joe,

They only said his name once and then only his last name. The pronunciation sounded a bit odd to me but what was more interesting was the time they took over the pronunciation of Fritz Lang's name. According to the man from the Smithsonian his name is pronounced LONG as opposed to LANG. Wasted time as far as I was concerned.

But the discussion of the suicide was indeed interesting. According to both men, since Billy Bigelow fell on his knife there was no reason for him to go to purgatory. He would have gone straight to heaven. On the other hand, Liliom's suicide would force him into purgatory, allowing him the one day return to earth sixteen years later. He was also allowed one day to return home directly after his arrival. Most suicides tend to forget something before they do the deed. As you know, Liliom refused the offer.

There was also some discussion about Lang's use of style and the wonderful camera work of Rudolf Mate.
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billyweeds
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:50 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20525 Location: New York City
Marj wrote:

...the pronunciation of Fritz Lang's name. According to the man from the Smithsonian his name is pronounced LONG as opposed to LANG. Wasted time as far as I was concerned.



I can understand how this might have been somewhat boring in a discussion, but I think it's very interesting how we would never think of mispronouncing a French name (say, "Truffaut") in an overly American way (TRUFF-AWT), yet German names are almost always mispronounced ("Lang" for "Lahng" or "FASS-BYNE-DER" (rhyming with "pass-kinder") rather than the correct "FAHSS-BIN-der" (rhyming with "LOSS-CINDER").
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marantzo
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:24 am Reply with quote
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The Spanish name Jesus seems to get the correct pronunciation. Probably because it sounds a little strange for English speakers if they pronounce it the English way. (Doesn't seem to bother the Spanish though). So giving it the correct pronunciation just sounds like you're giving a shout out to a Greek God instead.
yambu
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:30 am Reply with quote
Joined: 23 May 2004 Posts: 6441 Location: SF Bay Area
On a bathroom wall:

"Jesus is the answer!"
"What is the question?"
"Who was Matty Alou's brother?"

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Marj
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:27 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
billyweeds wrote:
Marj wrote:

...the pronunciation of Fritz Lang's name. According to the man from the Smithsonian his name is pronounced LONG as opposed to LANG. Wasted time as far as I was concerned.



I can understand how this might have been somewhat boring in a discussion, but I think it's very interesting how we would never think of mispronouncing a French name (say, "Truffaut") in an overly American way (TRUFF-AWT), yet German names are almost always mispronounced ("Lang" for "Lahng" or "FASS-BYNE-DER" (rhyming with "pass-kinder") rather than the correct "FAHSS-BIN-der" (rhyming with "LOSS-CINDER").


Normally, it wouldn't have boring, at least not to me. However I was very aware of the time - they only had a half hour for the entire discussion, so spending so much time on pronunciations ate up the time quickly. It was a shame, since there was so much to discuss that they never got to.
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billyweeds
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:53 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20525 Location: New York City
Billy Wilder was German-born, and so even though we consistently pronounce his name the same way we pronounce Thornton Wilder's, my bet is that the real pronunciation is "Vilder," rhyming with "builder."

On the other hand, most people, at least music-lovers, know that Richard (The Ring Cycle) Wagner's last name is not pronounced the same as Robert (All the Fine Young Cannibals) Wagner's.
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ehle64
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:24 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 7149 Location: NYC; US&A
if anyone pronounces truffaut's name "true fott" OR WHATEVs , don't even get me started on Fassbeender-- thx for that post billy

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Joe Vitus
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:41 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
Marj wrote:
Joe,

They only said his name once and then only his last name. The pronunciation sounded a bit odd to me but what was more interesting was the time they took over the pronunciation of Fritz Lang's name. According to the man from the Smithsonian his name is pronounced LONG as opposed to LANG. Wasted time as far as I was concerned.

But the discussion of the suicide was indeed interesting. According to both men, since Billy Bigelow fell on his knife there was no reason for him to go to purgatory. He would have gone straight to heaven. On the other hand, Liliom's suicide would force him into purgatory, allowing him the one day return to earth sixteen years later. He was also allowed one day to return home directly after his arrival. Most suicides tend to forget something before they do the deed. As you know, Liliom refused the offer.

There was also some discussion about Lang's use of style and the wonderful camera work of Rudolf Mate.


I think the idea is that Billy goes to Purgatory not because of the manner in which he died but because of the manner is which he lived his life. But it shows Hammerstein worked through a serious issue. The musical (by the standards of its day) had to have a happy ending, but Carousel couldn't just slap one on at the last minute and make it work. By redefining Billy as not a suicide but a victim of an accident, it makes him a different kind of man capable of a different kind of spiritual development.

But Liliom doesn't refuse the offer. He does go back to earth to make a change, and frustrated as he's trying to be nice to his daughter, ends up slapping her instead, just like Billy does. The difference is that his guide tells him he hasn't learned anything left and has missed his chance. Interestingly, his being taken away does not mean he has lost his only opportunity. He's being sent back to Purgatory, but the implication is, if they keep burning the bad stuff away, he may eventually be capable of redemption.

(Sorry it's taking so long to respond. No internet at the new homestead, yet.)

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marantzo
Posted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 4:47 pm Reply with quote
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An then we have the problem with the Vietnam city named Fuk Yuen. A lot of international representatives at that glass structure on the East River were highly offended.
Marj
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:11 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
billyweeds wrote:
Billy Wilder was German-born, and so even though we consistently pronounce his name the same way we pronounce Thornton Wilder's, my bet is that the real pronunciation is "Vilder," rhyming with "builder."

On the other hand, most people, at least music-lovers, know that Richard (The Ring Cycle) Wagner's last name is not pronounced the same as Robert (All the Fine Young Cannibals) Wagner's.


Billy - Someday, I hope you see the George Steven's documentary done by his son, George Stevens Jr. There is a whole section which tells the story of how C.B. DeMille went out of his way to over pronounce Wilder's and Zinneman's names. It's a truly wonderful documentary which was reaired last night on TCM. It's a must see!
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Marj
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:16 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
Quote:
But Liliom doesn't refuse the offer. He does go back to earth to make a change, and frustrated as he's trying to be nice to his daughter, ends up slapping her instead, just like Billy does. The difference is that his guide tells him he hasn't learned anything left and has missed his chance. Interestingly, his being taken away does not mean he has lost his only opportunity. He's being sent back to Purgatory, but the implication is, if they keep burning the bad stuff away, he may eventually be capable of redemption.


Joe,

I think you made a good point in your first paragraph, regarding why Billy Bigelow goes to Purgatory. But I think you need to see Liliom again. Liliom is offered a day on earth as soon as he arrives in Purgatory. He refuses it. Watch it. You'll see what I mean.
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Joe Vitus
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:15 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
Hmm...I have never seen the two movies, but I've read Molnar's play. I guess I'm forgetting something. I do remember he was surly and told he would have to go to Purgatory to burn away his stubbornness and (I guess) anger. I'll have to pull that out and look at it again. Maybe they do offer him the opportunity and her turns it down, but I wonder if that was added to the movies? I think they were flops, by the way. Odd since, though it's forgotten today, Liliom was a very famous, very popular play around the globe, including America.

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