Tonight on CUNY TV - a show called "City Cinemateque" screened Liliom. There was a discussion afterward which really consisted of the host and one man from the Smithsonian in NY who talked about Fritz Lang and everyone involved with the making of the film; their backgrounds and the fact that everyone ended up in Hollywood, including the film's star, Charles Boyer.

Unfortunately, after the had gone through the credits, the earlier versions of the film and its incarnations on the stage - R&H were moved to do Carousel, not as a result of seeing this film but after seeing it on stage with Burgess Meredith and Ingrid Bergman, there were only a few minutes to discuss the film itself.

The main difference they found between this film and Carousel was the idea of suicide. Although they did discuss the erotic nature of Liliom, which they found highly so, especially in the opening carousel scene. But it was the arc, or lack thereof of Liliom himself, I found most interesting. He never really changes, grows or feels any remorse. It's our understanding of his character that does. Too bad they never got around to how Julie feels about him.

I wish they had more time, but it was still worth watching. Perhaps there was a tad too much pontificating but still it made for a worthwhile evening.

...the pronunciation of Fritz Lang's name. According to the man from the Smithsonian his name is pronounced LONG as opposed to LANG. Wasted time as far as I was concerned.

I can understand how this might have been somewhat boring in a discussion, but I think it's very interesting how we would never think of mispronouncing a French name (say, "Truffaut") in an overly American way (TRUFF-AWT), yet German names are almost always mispronounced ("Lang" for "Lahng" or "FASS-BYNE-DER" (rhyming with "pass-kinder") rather than the correct "FAHSS-BIN-der" (rhyming with "LOSS-CINDER").

Joe,

They only said his name once and then only his last name. The pronunciation sounded a bit odd to me but what was more interesting was the time they took over the pronunciation of Fritz Lang's name. According to the man from the Smithsonian his name is pronounced LONG as opposed to LANG. Wasted time as far as I was concerned.

But the discussion of the suicide was indeed interesting. According to both men, since Billy Bigelow fell on his knife there was no reason for him to go to purgatory. He would have gone straight to heaven. On the other hand, Liliom's suicide would force him into purgatory, allowing him the one day return to earth sixteen years later. He was also allowed one day to return home directly after his arrival. Most suicides tend to forget something before they do the deed. As you know, Liliom refused the offer.

There was also some discussion about Lang's use of style and the wonderful camera work of Rudolf Mate.

Billy Wilder was German-born, and so even though we consistently pronounce his name the same way we pronounce Thornton Wilder's, my bet is that the real pronunciation is "Vilder," rhyming with "builder."

On the other hand, most people, at least music-lovers, know that Richard (The Ring Cycle) Wagner's last name is not pronounced the same as Robert (All the Fine Young Cannibals) Wagner's.

But Liliom doesn't refuse the offer. He does go back to earth to make a change, and frustrated as he's trying to be nice to his daughter, ends up slapping her instead, just like Billy does. The difference is that his guide tells him he hasn't learned anything left and has missed his chance. Interestingly, his being taken away does not mean he has lost his only opportunity. He's being sent back to Purgatory, but the implication is, if they keep burning the bad stuff away, he may eventually be capable of redemption.