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| Joe Vitus |
 Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:02 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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lissa wrote: Correction, y'all...it's Ghost Town and I did love that movie. I thought it was a throwback to the old-fashioned comedy romance genre and done very well.
I love Ricky. I've been wanting to see The Invention of Lying since before it came out - almost went this week but my friend from out of town wasn't into it, so we passed. Still, I'll see it - and thanks, Joe, you cemented it for me!
The Ghost Story references had me baffled. Had Gervais re-filmed the Peter Straub novel? Lissa cleared it up for me. |
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| lissa |
| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:31 pm |
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| The novel by Straub was WAY better than the movie anyway...scared the bejeezus outta me when I was younger...Fenny Bates? *shudder* |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:48 pm |
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| I agree. I like the movie a little better than most people do, probably because I was a kid when it came out and the shock moments really startled me. Plus it was the first or second R-rated movie I ever saw. But no contest the book is much better...and essentially unfilmable. |
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| Earl |
| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:00 pm |
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Joined: 09 Jun 2004
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Location: Houston
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Joe Vitus wrote: If you get a chance, see The Invention of Lying,
I had the chance this afternoon and I saw it. And really liked it, even though my more churlish side wanted to punch holes in the premise from time to time. (In a world where lying is impossible, why, to cite just one example, is money necessary?) But the movie's charms won me over and I gradually began to dismiss those thoughts. One could either be the person who thinks it's cool when the Death Star goes boom, or be the one who says that it's impossible because explosions don't make noise in the vacuum of space. I just decided to allow the movie its conceits.
Ricky Gervais' performance is really something here. He reminded me of that line from Jackie Gleason that all great comics also have the ability to make an audience cry. I won't spoil it, but he has a scene which made my eyes tear up.
Question: do you suppose Coke and/or Pepsi signed off on the way their products are shown in the movie? My guess is that Coke did, but Pepsi didn't. Plus, speaking of product placement, the way Pizza Hut is displayed provided me with the movie's biggest laugh.
I'm intrigued by the notion that a world without lies automatically means a world without art. Jennifer Garner's slinky dress looked elegantly chic as did her apartment. Some creative force designed those. Also, people in this story seemed not only incapable of lying, but also compelled to speak blunt truths even when it was unnecessary, even when it might do the speaker some harm. Does a world without lies also mean no Fifth Amendment rights? People might be incapable of lying, but can't they simply choose not to speak? Or would that be a lie of omission and, therefore, impossible?
But there's the churl in me again. You see how easy it is to slip. The movie is enjoyable and it's probably a tribute to the intelligence of the screenplay that it could get me to think about this stuff. |
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| lissa |
| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:13 pm |
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| Films with such premises are refreshing. Outside of the reality of some film plots, and the utter fantasy of others, why not sprinkle in a few where we MUST suspend our disbelief (and, I suppose, our cynicism) in order to just have a good laugh? Between all-out comedy and deep-seated drama lies the one that makes you say, "hmmmm...yeah...what if?!" And who better to make us think than the clever Ricky Gervais...works for me! |
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| Earl |
| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:44 pm |
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Location: Houston
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| Another thing, I also thought of a movie made several years ago starring Dudley Moore. In it he played an advertising executive who suffers a mental breakdown and decides to create ads which tell only the truth. ("Volvos. They're boxy, but they're good.") I've forgotten the title of that one. The Invention of Lying takes that premise, however, and turns it on its head. |
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"I have a suspicion that you are all mad," said Dr. Renard, smiling sociably; "but God forbid that madness should in any way interrupt friendship." |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 11:58 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: New York City
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Salon's Stephanie Zacharek says Spike Jonze has made a dullsville flick in Where the Wild Things Are. She wraps up with this snarky but IMO very funny line:
Jonze has said that he was thinking of Cassavetes movies as he wrote the dialogue for Where the Wild Things Are. A child is waiting, and he wants his money back.
(To appreciate Zacharek's line you have to know that Cassavetes directed the Burt Lancaster/Judy Garland movie A Child is Waiting, but....) |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:15 am |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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so billy are you going to see Where The Wild Things Are or are you just gonna quote snarky one liners from critics?
WTWTA is a true oddity of a film. I can honestly say I've never seen anything like it....which is really saying something. When a director brings something fresh to the screen I'm always interested, even when the results are not perfect. As I've said, WTWTA is flawed, but it is such a compellingly offbeat film that I admire it while not particularly loving it. I will see it again. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:28 am |
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Earl wrote: Joe Vitus wrote: If you get a chance, see The Invention of Lying,
Question: do you suppose Coke and/or Pepsi signed off on the way their products are shown in the movie? My guess is that Coke did, but Pepsi didn't. Plus, speaking of product placement, the way Pizza Hut is displayed provided me with the movie's biggest laugh.
I wondered about the Coke and Pepsi references, too. Especially as I was at the Edwards. "Soft drinks provided by Coke" as a preview ad tells us.
Earl wrote: I'm intrigued by the notion that a world without lies automatically means a world without art. Jennifer Garner's slinky dress looked elegantly chic as did her apartment. Some creative force designed those. Also, people in this story seemed not only incapable of lying, but also compelled to speak blunt truths even when it was unnecessary, even when it might do the speaker some harm. Does a world without lies also mean no Fifth Amendment rights? People might be incapable of lying, but can't they simply choose not to speak? Or would that be a lie of omission and, therefore, impossible?
Okay, two things here. One, I loved the variations on what a lie is. No movies, no art, but also no attempt to make offices seem anything more than the drab, dreary places where work is carried out. But I think the clothes accentuate what a person has physically. The clothes don't seem to hide or decieve. Which is probably why Lowe doesn't wear a tie and has his collar unbuttoned: to show more of his body. That might be the arcane reasoning behind his perpectual five o'clock shadow: it demonstrates his masculine genes.
Two, I really wondered about the boundaries between lying and reserve myself. I think the idea is that in a world where everyone is honest, and not honest out of a moral sense but simply out of a complete lack of imagination to see beyond the surface, there's no idea that you should censor yourself for the sake of another's feelings. What's true is true. The world we see isn't just honest, it's stunted. People can't see more than surface images and facts. Which is why Garner's breakthrough with the kids is so moving, probably my favorite moment in the movie.
There is clearly an idea that lies are creative and lead to, not just a more livable society, but a more evolved and beneficial one. It's a really interesting concept.
Earl wrote: But there's the churl in me again. You see how easy it is to slip. The movie is enjoyable and it's probably a tribute to the intelligence of the screenplay that it could get me to think about this stuff.
It kinda reminds me of Buffy/Angel conversations where we end up asking how vampires can smoke or even speak, whether the The First's statements ("You're the one who sees everything" relating to Xander) hold up, or what the final resolution to the premise of Angel's redemption was. Tell you the truth, I couldn't help thinking of Anya everytime Garner's character showed up. |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:14 am |
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Joe Vitus wrote:
There is clearly an idea that lies are creative and lead to, not just a more livable society, but a more evolved and beneficial one. It's a really interesting concept.
This is an idea that's been kicking around in various forms for years. Lies as social lubricant and such. In child development, when kids are unable to formulate lies, or are slow to develop the ability to lie, or cannot conjure up any kind of convincing lies, it is usually a sign of mental slowness. Lying is a sign of intelligence, a way of controlling the world and bending it to your will.
Also, the word art of course comes form artifice, that which is artificial.
My problem is that when I lie I prefer to make up interesting creative lies, but then can easily forget what they were or lose interest in pursuing them. I have the same trouble with passwords. Can come up with a million good ones, but can't recall them later. I'm not a good liar, and my brother swears that whenever I lie, my nostrils flare, so I apparently have a physical "tell" as well. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:40 am |
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Well, I don't claim Gervais has come up with a new concept, but it's particuarly surprising to see it aired in a "popular" comedy, and in that genre to approach religious issues. I wonder if British Gervais didn't recognize how this would play to an American audience? It's pretty daring. Nor does the movie simplify things into "lies are good and let's not be judgemental." It seems to understand the complexity of deception, the good and bad.
The movie had a peculiar effect on me because generally lying is something I hold in particular contempt. I don't really understand why people lie, except in current inhuman workplace situations (where you can only take a day off by calling in sick, for instance). Honesty is particularly important to me, perhaps because of a borderline sociopath I once knew, a very charming person who lied quite successfully most of the time and caused any number of people a great deal of pain.
But perhaps I'm oversharing. |
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| lissa |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:58 am |
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| Re: Where the Wild Things Are...what I find strange is that it began as a 10-sentence children's book and has ended up a 98-minute film actually not recommended for the very age it should target. From the reviews (all good, btw) I've read, it's more a film for adults and older kids. I'll still see it - too much nostalgia and intrigue for me to stay away...but that aspect of it baffles. |
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| lissa |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:14 am |
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Gervais was interviewed by Canada A.M. last week - good interview, too. He says that he is more American in his thought processes than most Brits around him, as the Brits tend to be very cynical and truthful. I like the way he frames his premise.
Oh, and Joe - just wanted to teeny-tiny correct you earlier..it's Jeffrey Tambor. I've loved his work since before Garry Shandling...I NEED to get to this film! |
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Statistically, 6 out of 7 dwarfs aren't happy. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:19 am |
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Saw an old episode of The Simpsons the other day, where Homer and Marge are hanging onto a rope over a gorge and sure that they will die. Homer tells Marge that they have had a good marriage even though there were a lot of lies. Then he says, "But a lot of good things are lies. Religion and American history..." 
Something that really pisses me off (and I'm sure pisses off just about everybody), is when someone thinks I'm lying, when I'm not. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:38 am |
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| I find these declarations that "this movie should not be seen by children" is a condescending and arrogant (is that redundant?) attitude by adults. Sure, if you know that your kid gets freaked by scary movies or any other type, you avoid those movies, but many kids like all kind of movies, (of course explicit sex scenes aren't appropriate), and making the blanket statement that some movies are not for children is just stupid. I can't include girls in this opinion because I only have experience regarding boys. Had no sisters. |
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