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| marantzo |
 Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:21 pm |
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| It's a good bet that Marc loved it. |
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| mo_flixx |
| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:23 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
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marantzo wrote: It's a good bet that Marc loved it.
LOL! |
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| lissa |
| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:40 pm |
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mo - looked it up (I hadn't seen it). It isn't something I'd have seen when it came out - I was too young and I doubt it opened here. But it also isn't something Blockbuster would carry. Looks dreadful, though, in terms of content...(okay - edit: looks vile)
I haven't seen The Deer Hunter more than once, but I did see it the first time. The russian roulette scene had me crying myself to sleep that night, and I haven't seen it again. I might, though - being older and more mature in my film-viewing habits, I might see it differently. |
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| mo_flixx |
| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:54 pm |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 2:46 pm |
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Location: Houston
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| Salo is one of those movies I'm sure I will never watch. Just not something I need to see. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:02 pm |
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| Salo means dirty doesn't it, or maybe even filthy. That should alert the squeamish. |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:55 pm |
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SALO is definitely worth seeing. It's Pasolini's fuck you to the rich and decadent hypocrites who use religion, wealth and politics to enslave the masses. It's about the perversion of power and the power of perversion. It was shocking when it was released in the 70s and still packs a punch. It's roughly based on the Marquis De Sade's 120 DAYS OF SODOM. It's not a movie you enjoy, it's a movie you experience. And considering this is a forum for film fans (I think), I can't see any reason not to see it. It's a landmark film, whether you dig it or not.
Lately,it seems there is more discussion in here about why people won't see a film than about films they've seen. Maybe I should return to the television forum and go on about why I don't watch television. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:02 pm |
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| Being a film fan doesn't mean you have to watch everything. I don't want to see the movie, and I've read enough about it to know I'm not going to like it. There's enough ugliness in the world. I don't need to force myself to expereicne more, no matter how well done it is. |
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| mo_flixx |
| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:20 am |
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marantzo wrote: Salo means dirty doesn't it, or maybe even filthy. That should alert the squeamish.
"Salò" actually refers to the Italian town or republic created by the Nazis. Yes, it _does_ sound like the French word "sale," meaning "dirty" (Italian is "sporco"). The full title is "Salò or the 120 Days of Sodom."
Marc, remember I DID see the movie...and I'd make a case for most members here (except those who simply couldn't handle it) to SEE it. What I said if you go back to my original post about "Salò" is that I probably wouldn't see it AGAIN.
I was trying to come up with a personal example in the discussion lissa was having with gary back a few posts.
Just thought of another personal example...and this is one I did not see: the movie about people who have sex with horses. You had a copy at Mondo. They showed it in Santa Fe at the Center for Contemporary Arts. I'll be interested to hear what you think about that movie.
And I agree that no one seems to be seeing movies these days. Perhaps it's either the time of year, the dearth of movies, or the economic crisis??? |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:40 am |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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Location: Shanghai
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I've watched a few lesser-known Billy Wilder films in the past few weeks.
The Major & The Minor (1942) is Wilder's first film as sole director. Ginger Rogers attempts to get back home by train on a child's half-fare, with screwball comedy ensuing. Ray Milland is her foil as handsome befuddled soldier who tries to help, in a very Cary Grant role. When the conductors start to catch on to Ginger's scam, she ends up hiding and then sleeping in Milland's cabin, skirting around the Code, as Milland believes her to be a child.
Complications conspire so that Ginger has to spend a weekend at the military academy where Milland teaches, so she has to continue pretending to be a minor. All of the boys make moves on her left and right, and it's kind of disturbing how this supposed 13 year old ("14 next week") is pounced upon by the cadets. I had to mentally change the fake age to almost-16 to make it palatable.
There are some nice touches here and there. I liked the wise-guy daughter of the Academy's director, who really is 14 or so and sees right through Ginger's scheme, but helps her out.
But a good deal of it, including Milland's fiancee getting upset and misunderstanding, is fairly predictable and standard issue genre tropes.
The train hijinks, hiding, and disguise reminded me of Wilder's later Some Like It Hot. While Milland is given a better fitting part in The Lost Weekend a few years later.
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Five Graves to Cairo (1943) was my favorite of the three I watched. Pretty ballsy to make a film about Rommel during the war. And casting von Stroheim as Rommel is masterful.
Attached to the wartime advance of Rommel on Egypt is a plot involving a spy, a case of mistaken identity, and a made-up secret to Rommel's success, which needs to be discovered and disclosed.
Some nice Wilder touches -- we first see Rommel from behind, while he's transmitting a radio message in German. He finishes, pauses, and then decides to resend the message in English to help the Allied interceptors. It's a clever way to provide the authenticity of a German officer speaking German, show off Rommel's brash character, and give American audiences English.
The film alternates a bit between realism and sound staginess (similar to Hitchcock, Casablanca, etc.). The film maintains a 40's Hollywood balance between light and heavy throughout, with the Italian military leader and the only Arab in the film both acting as comic relief (Akim Tamiroff plays basically a frightened negro character -- a Birmingham Brown role -- but as an Arab. Yet, Tamiroff is really good at it). Franchot Tone plays the lead role in this very international cast. (IMDb trivia claims that Wilder wanted Cary Grant for the part, which I believe, since he had Milland due a full-on Grant imitation the year before in The Major & Minor. Surprisingly, Anne Baxter plays a feisty French maid in a dusty North Africa town.
The film isn't entirely successful, but is certainly entertaining and has enough spark and cleverness to merit a Netflixation.
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Love in the Afternoon (aka Ariane) (1957) is from Wilder's late period, which I'd define as from Sabrina on. I haven't liked much from this phase of Wilder's career. The film kind of dragged on and was only saved by the mesmerizing cuteness of Audrey Hepburn. While her flighty, playful dialogue was the highlight of the film.
Wilder continues his interesting and deft casting choices. Gary Cooper as an aging playboy, Maurice Chevalier as an aging private detective, and Hepburn as an ageless ingenue. Problem is that it just doesn't work. Despite being French, in Paris, and having a father (Chevalier) who speaks in thickly accented English, Hepburn speaks like an American throughout. Chevalier hams it up as usual, but the relationship between father and daughter just seems false.
And then Cooper seems too weathered and worn out for this role of juggling women around the world. The other problem is that he seems to have no personality. So why would sweet little Audrey fall for him, except that he's rich?
Cooper has the physical stature, but otherwise is about as exciting and romantic as a lamppost.
And there's a decided lack of chemistry between them. But the real problem with the film is the creepiness factor of a near 60 year old man seducing innocent 20-something Hepburn.
Again, Cary Grant reportedly turned down the role due to this ick factor, just as he turned down the Bogey role in Sabrina. Questions for further study: what was it with pairing aging men with Audrey's youthful innocence? And how come Cary Grant made a career out of turning down Billy Wilder?
Wilder employs a few running gags. Chevalier's private detective folders and Audrey's access to them is mostly amusing and well-played. But the gypsy musical quartet that Cooper keeps employed gets to be a pretty tired joke midway through the film, though they doggedly re-appear again and again. And the recurring lapdog gags, though brief, should have been edited out.
Another problem is that this slight Lubitsch style romantic comedy -- one reason Chevalier was invited -- drags on for 2 hours and 10 minutes. Back in the original Depression, Lubitsch would have wrapped it all up in just under 90. |
Last edited by gromit on Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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| bocce |
| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:25 am |
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the thing that has always amazed me about wilder is that this is a guy writing his own scripts in a notoriously idiomatic and colloquial language which was not his native tongue. not only that, but he writes wildly successful comedy which is the hardest aspect to master of any language...
amongst the many fine attributes of wilder are his casting choices. so grant didn't do wilder. who cares when he is able to draw such great performances from seeming mismatches (tyrone power and dietrich...bogart and hepburn...macmurray and stanwyck)...
back in the day on the old NYTFF (when we actually had people interested in specialty fora), we did one on wilder. it only lasted two weeks because there was nothing to debate. the man was a genius... |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:59 am |
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Location: New York City
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bocce wrote: the thing that has always amazed me about wilder is that this is a guy writing his own scripts in a notoriously idiomatic and colloquial language which was not his native tongue. not only that, but he writes wildly successful comedy which is the hardest aspect to master of any language...
amongst the many fine attributes of wilder are his casting choices. so grant didn't do wilder. who cares when he is able to draw such great performances from seeming mismatches (tyrone power and dietrich...bogart and hepburn...macmurray and stanwyck)...
back in the day on the old NYTFF (when we actually had people interested in specialty fora), we did one on wilder. it only lasted two weeks because there was nothing to debate. the man was a genius...
I agree with most of this post. When I first saw "Bogart and Hepburn" I thought, "No, no, bocce, Wilder didn't direct The African Queen." But then light dawned.
For the record, I too was totally underwhelmed by Love in the Afternoon. I wonder, however, why gromit called the casting of Gary Cooper "deft" and then savaged it later. I agree with the savaging. And the movie is draggy and heavy. It did sort of foreshadow the passing of the great Wilder period 1944-60. But while that period lasted it was the best for any Hollywood director save for Alfred Hitchcock around the same time, ending in 1960 for both of them.
The year 1960 saw the release of two of my top ten movies of all time, The Apartment and Psycho, two of the best from the two best, and the last truly great films from both of them. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:00 am |
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| I liked, but wasn't wild about either of those and don't consider them Wilder's or Hitchcock's best. Psycho was sort of a groundbreaker so I give it credit for that. I found The Apartment a little off, with the Lemon character rather more of a wimpy facilitator than a hero. Actually that may have been the problem I had with the movie, I didn't care for any of the characters. The boss was a philanderer, McLaine was a slut and what I said about Lemon. That might sound harsh, but just consider their actions. |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:18 am |
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I think Wilder usually opted for creative casting and went with a lot of interesting pairings. I'm guessing that getting an older Cooper was seemingly a coup at the time and added some intrigue, matched with the hot and hip Hepburn. But Cooper and the role just don't get along.
It's partly Wilder's fault, as the role is underwritten -- at one point, Cooper even says that he isn't good with words -- as the film focuses on Audrey and she gets some nice head-in-the-clouds flirty dialogue. I have trouble picturing Cary Grant doing much with it, though it'd be better than Cooper's haggard effort. Really it seems a lot like a Clark Gable role.
I'm not a fan of later Wilder. I think Some Like it Hot is unfunny and plodding. And I've never understood the appeal of The Apartment, which I found quite unlikable and dull, like something the martini set would find sophisticated and hip. Sabrina is also rather strained.
As for writing, Wilder usually collaborated on the screenplays. Frequently with Charles Brackett early on, and then later on often with I.A.L. Diamond. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 10:22 am |
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| I liked Some Like It Hot very much and just saw Sabrina the other day. Still found it very enjoyable. |
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