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| melisb |
 Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 3:58 pm |
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Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 6
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
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| Marj |
| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 4:01 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 10497
Location: Manhattan
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Bocce,
I agree that if we sound "psychotic" then we loose our credibility. Is that your point?
Censored,
I was surprised that during the 40th anniversay or JFK's death, no one discussed any conspiracy theories! And I, for one had never believed the Warren Commission. But I watched a lot of the documentaries that were aired at this time, which examined various conspiracy theories and came away believing none of them.
One that I had never heard up until then, was the theory that LBJ was in on some plan! Of course no one has ever been able to prove it, but it was fascinating as an intellectual exercise. I also wonder, if Oliver Stone's film suggested some good theories why have no government officials investigated them. Oh, I know they have been investigated a lot. But you know what I mean.
True, a lot of people surrounding the event and investigations are dead, but based on the documented evidence as well as sworn affidavits, it appears to me, that the lone gunman theory, is still the best and most reliable theory. But I think the one bit of evidence that convinced me was an explanation in a PBS documentary, on how JFK's head could have turned in the opposite direction from the direction of the bullet. And why there was no need for a fourth bullet, based on the trajectory. I wish now, I had taped it, so I could explain it. While it didn't totally seal the deal for me, it did convince me, that it could and most likely have happened that way.
Now, Oswald's motives are another matter alltogether! |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 4:11 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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Quote: The Rep convention was fear inspiring, reactionary and filled with bile and out and out lies.
The "out and out lies" and "reactionary" is subject to debate, but I can understand your saying that.
There was nothing to me fear inspiring or filled with bile. Maybe the "bile" refers to Giuliani's speach. I didn't see that, so I won't comment. In the case of both conventions, because I really consider these things an exercise in rhetoric where we learn nothing until the two candidates speak for themselves, I only watched the presidenial and vice presidential candidates' speeches.
In terms of "fear inspiring" I'm guessing, becasue I can't think of anything else, you and others are referring to the world situation situation being addressed. That we are at war, that terrorists threaten us. I think this is the case. I think for either party to ignore this, or to not make a plan for dealing with this part of their campaign, would be a huge mistake. And both, of course, addressed the issue as an important factor in the election.I think the whole point of both Bush's and Cheney's comments on this were that we had the strength, and the resolve, to overcome these things. A lot of people would call that inspiring.
How can people here post these nightmarish theories about how Bush allowed 9-11 to happen intentionally, or the Republicans are out to manipulate, lie, and destroy us, and then accuse the Republicans of trying to instill fear and intimidating people into a vote?
This place is filled with major nightmare theories about the current administration, and we are warned of the dire threat should Bush be re-elected. Much more intense, fear-inspiring rhetoric than anything I heard from the Republican convention. |
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| Ghulam |
| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 4:17 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 4742
Location: Upstate NY
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| Melisb, as I am sure you know, the wife of the solicitor general was on that plane on her way to California, and was talking to her husband about the hijackers on her cell phone until seconds before the impact. So it must have been a passenger plane. |
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| jeremy |
| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 4:17 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6794
Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
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| JFK was full of inaccuracies, lies and conflation, it is a shame that some regard it as authoritative, or even an honest portrayal. |
_________________
I am angry, I am ill, and I'm as ugly as sin.
My irritability keeps me alive and kicking.
I know the meaning of life, it doesn't help me a bit.
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| mo_flixx |
| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 4:19 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
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| Kate |
| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 4:27 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1397
Location: Pacific Northwest
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mo_flixx wrote: Kate wrote:
I have a friend that believes the gov was in on 9/11, he also thinks that the trails behind airplanes are chemicals designed to "dumb" us all down.
I've heard this theory too. Wish I remember where.
Mo -
Just google "chemtrails", these loonies are everywhere. It is actually a pretty large network of folks.
It's a hoot. |
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| melisb |
| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:03 pm |
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Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 6
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
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| Ghulam, I don't take these theories very seriously, maybe I should have been clearer on that... |
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| mo_flixx |
| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:13 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
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I found this video extremely interesting.
Ghulam is right. If this is true, what happened to all the passengers (Solic. Gen.'s wife, etc.) on the plane. I remember at the time there was relatively news about the Pentagon. I don't remember info. re: ground casualties, for example. Most of the media att'n. was focused on the WTC.
There is a link you can click on about 3/4 of the way thru the video. I clicked and downloaded an article filled with web sites which support the video's theory. They are too numerous to list at the moment, but I suspect the final URL has links to the others:
http://www.cassiopaea.com/cgi-bin/ipspyw.cgi
BTW, the stuff I downloaded has been updated as of 9/04 to reflect what was going on in NYC w/ the Rep. Convention. |
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| mo_flixx |
| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:16 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
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| No luck with that last link. Forget it - it's basically just a way to leave your email address. I'll probably go to the other links when I have time and will report back if I find anything interesting. |
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| censored-03 |
| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 5:30 pm |
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Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 3058
Location: Gotham, Big Apple, The Naked City
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I have spent years and so many hours on it. I have recordings and the Zapruder film and all of the Warren Commishstuff and nobody including Oliver Stone has convinced me...the evidence has. Have none of you actually heard of the recently cleaned up motorcade recording of the 4 shots at Kennedy ? I even synched the Zapruder with the old recording just last year to show my wife, who had never seen it. It took her all of 5 minutes to see for herself that the death shot was no-way from the rear. Just too much eyewitness stuff and technical as well, to ever convince me otherwise. Arlen Spector and President Gerald Ford refuse to discuss the Warren Commision of which both were a part of.
The single funniest thing about the whole Dealy Plaza thing is "the umbrella man"...a man in a trenchcoat opening and closing an umbrella on one very sunny Dallas afternoon...testing his new umbrella or signal to gunmen? Conspiracy..nah..just another kook...or 2..or 3..or maybe the CIA or Cubans or Sam Giancana or J. Edgar or the New Orleans connection, the Dallas Police/Ruby connection..the fact that Kennedy's coffin was a different color when it got off the plane to go to the Bethesda hospital. The altered autopsy of entry into Kennedy's neck in front not from behind. All of those "covenient" witness deaths. I could go on and on ..but foggeddaboudit ! It was just some sap commie with a fairly poor army sniper record reeling off the most precise 3 shots in history and that "single" bullet dancing around in mid-air in the limo in at least 5 different directions for 5 seconds. LOL
P.S. Let us not forget...
In 1978 the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) concluded that there was probably a conspiracy to kill President Kennedy. This conclusion was primarily based on acoustic evidence contained in Dallas Police Department radio recordings.
Techies are finding the direction and locations of the 4 shots as we post right now..thank goodness for digital, the mystery may soon end ! |
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| Marj |
| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 6:33 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: Manhattan
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Censored,
I'd be very interested in seeing that film. While that the PBS documentary, answered a lot of questions, it also left me with more.
I'd really like to think, I always keep an open mind. I understand why the Kennedy family want to put this entire thing to bed, but as long as there as still questions, I can never close the door.
Speaking of conspiracies, I am now watching a documentary on TRIO called, Golden Globes: Hollywood's Dirty Little Secret.  |
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| ehle64 |
| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 7:03 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 7149
Location: NYC; US&A
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jeremy wrote: JFK was full of inaccuracies, lies and conflation, it is a shame that some regard it as authoritative, or even an honest portrayal.
It might have been innacurate, but it was hella entertaining. Plus, it did wonders for that Kevin Bacon game. |
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| lshap |
| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 7:44 pm |
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Site Admin
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 4248
Location: Montreal
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The belief that Bush et al somehow engineered the massive scale destruction and death toll on 9/11 is monstrous, and a far worse smear than anything the Republicans have said.
Come on guys, really! |
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| Mr. Brownstone |
| Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 7:47 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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I think bocce's point is that to even consider that the evidence I've been perusing concerning 9-11 troubles me in that a potential conclusion I might reach is that the US gov had some culpability in 9-11 makes me a loon and psychotic.
"In 1978 the House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) concluded that there was probably a conspiracy to kill President Kennedy. This conclusion was primarily based on acoustic evidence contained in Dallas Police Department radio recordings."
I guess this is the factual evidence that bothers me the most regarding Kennedy's assassination: nobody seems to give a fuck. You would think the HSCA coming to the conclusion that our head of state had been assasinated in full public view by getting his head blown off and his executioners apparently having gotten away with the crime would inspire a minor uproar, to say the least. But nobody seems to give a fuck other than to acknowledge this fact as one would a really nifty spy thriller begin discussed at a dinner party. It's the fucking assassination of our president, for crying out loud!
It's the same thing with bin Laden, whose named was not mentioned ONCE at the GOP convention. Despite the fact that we hold bin Laden responsible for 9-11, which destroyed three national landmarks, killed approximately 3,000 innocent people, caused unmitigated damage to our national infrastructure and is undoubtedly the most damaging act of war against America in its history, Bush claims that he "really doesn't spend a lot of time thinking about him anymore."
This would not only sink the Dems' campaign if uttered by John Kerry, but represents the greatest betryal of the victims I can imagine.
"Yeah, he destroyed the Twin Towers and blasted the Pentagon and killed 3,000 people and he's still out there somewhere. But I don't think about him much."
Fuck you. Bush should be fucking obsessed with bin Laden. He's not. He can barely being himself to care about him at all, apparently. Why? |
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