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Joe Vitus |
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:23 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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billyweeds wrote: Joe Vitus wrote: I have so far refused to go Netflix or Greencine...
Why, in heaven's name?
Because these days it's rare if I rent one movie in two or three months. The dues would be wasted. |
_________________ You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.
-Topher |
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mo_flixx |
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:44 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
Posts: 12533
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Syd wrote: Two-Face goes back to the 1940s, which I think pre-dates Sholay. A much more likely influence is the George Raft character in the 1932 Scarface, who also tosses a coin, but doesn't use it in the same way as Two-Face. The Raft character was well enough known that the coin flipping (by another character) was used in Some Like It Hot.
I remember a Two-Face type of character in the Dick Tracy comics. Don't know the year, tho'. Just barely remember him. ('40's or '50's?).
Anyone know more? |
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seagull |
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:47 pm |
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Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 1525
Location: Philadelphia PA
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If it's just before the 1970's , you have a case.
every double headed coin thing that happenned after the 1970's was influenced by sholay.(the darn thing was too big for it not to have.  |
_________________ Palin : Bush in a pantyhose. |
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jeremy |
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:57 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6794
Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
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Sholay was indeed a huge film and the coin tossing scene an iconic moment.
I was twenty before I saw my first Bollywood film, on a plane to Hong Kong. I can’t remember the title, but I was smitten by its vitality, not to mention the voluptuous dancing girls. I don’t want this to sound patronising, but I found the ridiculousness of the plots, the melodrama, the bigger and life acting, essentially their naivety was a mark of their cultural purity, their independence from Hollywood. I won’t say actively sought out Bollywood films and I was never particularly well acquainted with the actors or filmmakers, but I always pleased to watch them on the occasions – in hotels, on planes, during foreign postings and on rainy Saturday afternoons on TV – when I encountered them.
Strangely, over the years, I have become less enamoured of them. For me, the more sophisticated they have become, the more the production values of improved and the thinner the dancing girls have got, the more I’ve found them to be, well, Hollywood. Often blatantly so. Of course, there are many Indian films, serious films, that an outsider like me would not think of as ‘Bollywood’ but these are not the films that have made Bollywood the world’s true dream factory
Can we see Bollywood in Western films in the way? Is it a two-way street? Generally, I’d say not really. To me, their influence has been much less pronounced than that of East Asian cinema. |
_________________ I am angry, I am ill, and I'm as ugly as sin.
My irritability keeps me alive and kicking.
I know the meaning of life, it doesn't help me a bit.
I know beauty and I know a good thing when I see it. |
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seagull |
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:04 pm |
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Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 1525
Location: Philadelphia PA
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and you belong to a majority of people that think this.
If this were the nineties I woud agree, but this millenium, as people start ripping off asiuan cinema(the eye,the ring) more blatantly, the old divisions of far eastern cinema being a hollywood influence while bollywood being the curry lane of british cinema has evaporated. (you'll realize that britsh filmmakers have been more open about their bollywood influence except for the annoying tendency they have to need to explain the fact that they have classical tablists playing in their films with a "brown is the new black" style racializing of their art)
Also, Im not at all saying EVERY Hollywood film somehow has an Indian film influence, Im saying when there is something that walks like a duck, etc..., it's likely not explained by the more remote influence(given that this is pop art) but the more proximate one.
Im not sure youve actually seen ANY bollywood films even if youve sat in front of a melodrama or two, given as you can't even speak a coherent sentance to me without the voices of all the indians in britain you want to put in concentration camp interfering with your mental narrative.
I think if you actually wanted to see a bollywood film and write about it , without your brain constantly screaming "that (insert nazi expeltive here)indian might take my job...or worse my daughter!!!!" , then it might be of some help to you.Strictly theraputically.
Of course you need not watch bollywood films at all....which is always an option. |
_________________ Palin : Bush in a pantyhose. |
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Marj |
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:30 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 10497
Location: Manhattan
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Quote: I don’t want this to sound patronising, but I found the ridiculousness of the plots, the melodrama, the bigger and life acting, essentially their naivety was a mark of their cultural purity, their independence from Hollywood.
I don't mean to sound naive but isn't this part of the point of Bollywood? To be bigger, more melodramatic et, al, than Hollywood films. Aren't they having some fun at Hollywood's expense? |
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seagull |
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:30 pm |
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Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 1525
Location: Philadelphia PA
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Marj wrote: Quote: I don’t want this to sound patronising, but I found the ridiculousness of the plots, the melodrama, the bigger and life acting, essentially their naivety was a mark of their cultural purity, their independence from Hollywood.
I don't mean to sound naive but isn't this part of the point of Bollywood? To be bigger, more melodramatic et, al, than Hollywood films. Aren't they having some fun at Hollywood's expense?
no. |
_________________ Palin : Bush in a pantyhose. |
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jeremy |
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:33 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6794
Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
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I'm not claiming to be an expert and am willing to accept that in recent years Indian cinema may have moved to another level. It can be a bit of a struggle to keep up.
Admittedly, Indian culture is highly visible (and popular) in Britain, and must be having at least a subliminal influence on the mainstream. It may be harder for me than for an outsider to see this influence, but I'd say that for a number of reasons, film has been the perphaps the most resistant medium to this influence. I'd say Indiania has tended to be an option rather than forging some sort of fusion and that art by non-Asians that has self-conciously borrowed from Indian culture has often struck a false note. |
Last edited by jeremy on Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:37 pm; edited 1 time in total _________________ I am angry, I am ill, and I'm as ugly as sin.
My irritability keeps me alive and kicking.
I know the meaning of life, it doesn't help me a bit.
I know beauty and I know a good thing when I see it. |
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seagull |
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:36 pm |
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Joined: 11 Jul 2008
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Location: Philadelphia PA
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Bollywood films are melodramatic for the same reason Opera is melodramatic. the format of music plus drama allows the over the top emotion to address the needs of the audience in a melodramatic way.
The only strict drama that has ben able to do this is greek chorus. Most dramatic formats (including comedy) allow for really well reasoned arguments, but the further they stray from a script, the more melodramatic and unreasoning they get. (reason is only a subset of rhetoric). |
_________________ Palin : Bush in a pantyhose. |
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seagull |
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:38 pm |
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Joined: 11 Jul 2008
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Location: Philadelphia PA
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jeremy wrote: I'm not claiming to be an expert and am willing to accept that in recent years Indian cinema may have moved to another level. It can be a bit of a struggle to keep up.
Admittedly, Indian culture is highly visible (and popular) in Britain, and must be having at least a subliminal influence on the mainstream. It may be harder for me than for an outsider to see this influence, but I'd say that for a number of reasons, film has been the perphaps the most resistant medium to this influence. I'd say Indiania has tended to be an option rather than forging some sort of fusion and that art by non-Asians that has self-conciously borrowed from Indian culture has often struck a false note.
You speak as if all your nazi purity propaganda is fact.Tjis is furthest from the truth.I could explain but why should I need to convince you about it? it's pretty self evident that this is happenning to me. |
Last edited by seagull on Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:39 pm; edited 1 time in total _________________ Palin : Bush in a pantyhose. |
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Marj |
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:38 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 10497
Location: Manhattan
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seagull wrote: Marj wrote: Quote: I don’t want this to sound patronising, but I found the ridiculousness of the plots, the melodrama, the bigger and life acting, essentially their naivety was a mark of their cultural purity, their independence from Hollywood.
I don't mean to sound naive but isn't this part of the point of Bollywood? To be bigger, more melodramatic et, al, than Hollywood films. Aren't they having some fun at Hollywood's expense?
no.
I guess I'll just wait for an explanation from someone else. |
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jeremy |
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:38 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6794
Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
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Quote: ...reason is only a subset of rhetoric
Hmm. |
_________________ I am angry, I am ill, and I'm as ugly as sin.
My irritability keeps me alive and kicking.
I know the meaning of life, it doesn't help me a bit.
I know beauty and I know a good thing when I see it. |
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seagull |
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:40 pm |
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Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 1525
Location: Philadelphia PA
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Marj wrote: seagull wrote: Marj wrote: Quote: I don’t want this to sound patronising, but I found the ridiculousness of the plots, the melodrama, the bigger and life acting, essentially their naivety was a mark of their cultural purity, their independence from Hollywood.
I don't mean to sound naive but isn't this part of the point of Bollywood? To be bigger, more melodramatic et, al, than Hollywood films. Aren't they having some fun at Hollywood's expense?
no.
I guess I'll just wait for an explanation from someone else.
Its up there. go look. |
_________________ Palin : Bush in a pantyhose. |
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seagull |
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:42 pm |
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Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 1525
Location: Philadelphia PA
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jeremy wrote: Quote: ...reason is only a subset of rhetoric
Hmm.
Unless god gave you unchanging reasons with which you go forth and conquer.
There's that type, of course. |
Last edited by seagull on Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:43 pm; edited 1 time in total _________________ Palin : Bush in a pantyhose. |
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jeremy |
Posted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:42 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6794
Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
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Quote: You speak as if all your nazi purity propaganda is fact.Tjis is furthest from the truth.I could explain but why should I need to convince you about it? it's pretty self evident that this is happenning to me.
And you talk like any opinion that digresses from your own are as flies to to an elephant's arse. Your arrogance is truly astounding.
And I know for a fact that my late father-in-law didn't share your view of Anglo-Indian culture. |
Last edited by jeremy on Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total _________________ I am angry, I am ill, and I'm as ugly as sin.
My irritability keeps me alive and kicking.
I know the meaning of life, it doesn't help me a bit.
I know beauty and I know a good thing when I see it. |
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