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mo_flixx
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:16 am Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
Marc wrote:
I will be screening Courthouse on Horseback and Boarding Gate in
April at my theater.


Good. Your audiences will be in for a treat.
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gromit
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:35 am Reply with quote
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 9016 Location: Shanghai
As for L, C I thought using sex as the pivot to the story was deeply unsatisfying. The fact that sex was all their was to their relationship, and we basically get half an hour of that, pushed it too much to the front and removed all other context. Did you notice that her husband completely disappeared? Was that explained? Was he supposedly killed? Trapped in another city (HK)? Did I miss that?

Also, the scene where she tells the young patriot and their handler about her feelings was awfully clumsy foreshadowing/storytelling. For the resistance to rely on such an amateur for an important mission, and to provide virtually no training as far as we can tell seemed shortsighted at best. You would think her handlers would have reinforced his power and detailed some of his evil-doings to keep her focused on the task at hand. I understood that the old-looking college students were very naive and went about the resistance like it was a new play. But since the resistance cleaned up the early botched effort, wouldn't they conclude that these people needed to indoctrination and training.

I was unimpressed with the story construction. And a good half hour should have been snipped. Lastly I didn't like the cheesy look of the key fleeing scene. Looked like a TV production at that point. Definitely needed a re-take or preferably a re-staging.

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mo_flixx
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:41 am Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
gromit wrote:
As for L, C I thought using sex as the pivot to the story was deeply unsatisfying. The fact that sex was all their was to their relationship, and we basically get half an hour of that, pushed it too much to the front and removed all other context. Did you notice that her husband completely disappeared? Was that explained? Was he supposedly killed? Trapped in another city (HK)? Did I miss that?

Also, the scene where she tells the young patriot and their handler about her feelings was awfully clumsy foreshadowing/storytelling. For the resistance to rely on such an amateur for an important mission, and to provide virtually no training as far as we can tell seemed shortsighted at best. You would think her handlers would have reinforced his power and detailed some of his evil-doings to keep her focused on the task at hand. I understood that the old-looking college students were very naive and went about the resistance like it was a new play. But since the resistance cleaned up the early botched effort, wouldn't they conclude that these people needed to indoctrination and training.

I was unimpressed with the story construction. And a good half hour should have been snipped. Lastly I didn't like the cheesy look of the key fleeing scene. Looked like a TV production at that point. Definitely needed a re-take or preferably a re-staging.


Obviously for the heroine their relationship WAS about a great deal more than sex.

SPOILER:
(Stockholm syndrome, anyone??).

As to the plot gaps, I have the short story at home but haven't had time to read it yet. I assume that fills those in.

When I saw the film, I assumed that THE WAR was what made the husband's absences plausible.
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gromit
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:22 am Reply with quote
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 9016 Location: Shanghai
As for "exotic," I guess that term does have a questionable history in connection with Western dealings with Asia. But I'd apply it globally, as in whenever I see a film from a country/culture I'm unfamiliar with, it's more interesting because there is an anthropological lesson folded in. Meaning no matter the quality of the film itself, I'm going to learn about customs, and daily culture, and see some fascinating items which may be standard in that culture, but new to me.

For instance, I just picked up a new Chadian film Daratt (2007), which I expect will fit the bill.

But mostly I think I just don't like the themes and styles which are prevalent in modern Asian cinema.
I started off in the mid-90's with the early Zhang YiMou's and loved them, and not really sure I can name another recent Asian film I liked much since (not including Ang Lee's American output). Maybe just some lower key Japanese films, or anime such as Paprika.

I would say that Lust, Caution was one of the better ones I've seen. Though it left me dissatisfied, it was well done, with good casting (though weak characters, imo).

Green Fish was Lee Chang-dong's first film, and by most accounts his next two, Peppermint Candy and Oasis, are better. They are/were around but I haven't decided to give them a go. He also has a new film out (his 4th), Secret Sunshine.
Just doing a little research.

P Candy (1997) is about one man's life told in flashbacks which cover the turbulent history of Korea from Japanese occupation to the early 90's.
Oasis (1999) sounds interesting as a violent sociopath gets out of prison (shades of Green Fish), and decides to atone. He ends up in a relationship with a woman suffering from cerebral palsy. Sort of a "social outcasts attract" film, I gather.

They both sound like more assured efforts than Green Fish. Might have to track down Oasis now.

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gromit
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:41 am Reply with quote
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 9016 Location: Shanghai
mo_flixx wrote:

Obviously for the heroine their relationship WAS about a great deal more than sex.

Or sex took on greater meaning for her.
But how does the audience know that except for one brief clunky mention, and the ending?
Watching varying sex positions didn't get that through for me.

Quote:
SPOILER:
(Stockholm syndrome, anyone??).

Yes, but wouldn't this be enormously complicated by the fact that she wasn't just a victim but was an undercover operative and he was her target. I didn't think those complications were fleshed out at all. Instead we get an overdose of steamy sex scenes, one clunky line mention, and the ending with long-forgotten characters trotted out. Things needed tightening up in my view.

I thought it was a mistake to have his wife, her husband, and the earlier plotters all recede deep into the background, only to have the two central characters creatively hump but otherwise have limited contact.

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mo_flixx
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:08 am Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
exotica/erotica

"EXOTICA" is used in yesterday's NY Times review of "Boarding Gate." Kind of funny since one might use both "erotica" OR "exotica" to describe the film. "Exotica" fits because of the exotic locales: Paris and HK. Some of the reviews are citing London, too. Actually the big European city is non-descript. It could be anywhere vaguely foreign.

"Boarding Gate" is a film which makes the "exotic" seem unexotic and the "erotic," unerotic.

It's a film where one explores the bowels, not the glamor.
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tirebiter
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:26 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 4011 Location: not far away
"Through the Alimentary Canal with Gun & Camera!"
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Rod
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 7:54 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 Dec 2004 Posts: 2944 Location: Lithgow, Australia
Saw Juno. Pleasant, well-acted but facile film that just manages to earn some cred by knifing a few official pieties. The music made me want to throw things at the screen.

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lady wakasa
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:16 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 5911 Location: Beyond the Blue Horizon
gromit wrote:
mo_flixx wrote:

Obviously for the heroine their relationship WAS about a great deal more than sex.

Or sex took on greater meaning for her.
But how does the audience know that except for one brief clunky mention, and the ending?
Watching varying sex positions didn't get that through for me.

Quote:
SPOILER:
(Stockholm syndrome, anyone??).

Yes, but wouldn't this be enormously complicated by the fact that she wasn't just a victim but was an undercover operative and he was her target. I didn't think those complications were fleshed out at all. Instead we get an overdose of steamy sex scenes, one clunky line mention, and the ending with long-forgotten characters trotted out. Things needed tightening up in my view.

I thought it was a mistake to have his wife, her husband, and the earlier plotters all recede deep into the background, only to have the two central characters creatively hump but otherwise have limited contact.


Yeah, they did explain what happened with her "husband," and it had to do with his supposed job (import-export / black market), but I don't remember the explanation exactly. It comes up around the time she's training / meets Tony Leung again. I don't think that her second contact with the Tony Leung character lasts more than a few months, so it's not surprising that she and her "husband" would be separated for that amount of time.

There was also a LOT going on over those mah-jong (sp) games, as far as interactions between several characters, descriptions of what the backstory was, even the possibility that one of the other women may have had an affair with the Tony Leung character (based on some looks over the discussion about the diamond size).

Another KEY part of the movie is fact that SPOILER in the end she is a victim. ALL the men in her life screw her over in some form. Her father abandons her for a new life - and a new wife - in London, although he had no problems with taking her brother; the Wang Lee Hom character knows she's heavily crushing on him, and uses that to lead her into the resistance (because of her acting skills). He doesn't even take her virginity - that's left up to the slimy guy. The only man who's ever shown any care or affection for her - and I think he showed her more than that, despite my belief that he suspected she was a spy - was the Tony Leung character, and she was supposed to kill him. END SPOILER That plays big time into the whole Stockholm syndrome thing. She isn't an operative because she wanted to be (notice when they kill the guy she's the only one who doesn't get involved; likewise the other operatives end up together and getting picked up by the resistance while she runs off and spends four miserable years); it's something that just happened to her.

I think that there were clues to what you were looking for in the movie, definitely on an emotional level. I only have a superficial knowledge of Chinese culture and the importance of Eileen Chang's story (so I got the deluxe edition of the book the production team put out, which includes the story, the screenplay, and several essays to put things into context, as well as checked some boards discussing it), but I think I generally picked up what was going on. For example, just by how she reacted to Wang Lee Hom and her assignment the first time around were pretty clear indications to me that she was getting in over her head the second time. I saw her conversation with her two handlers as a very marked confirmation of all that, that she's had those internal complications going on and she's now running up the white flag because she doesn't think she can last much longer. They, SPOILER like the other men in her life, basically ignore her END SPOILER. Wang Lee Hom does seem to regret what's happening, but still doesn't do anything.

That's what the sex shows as well. It starts out roughly, he's in control. By the end, she's on top, and she could have easily killed him - the gun's hanging right there - but didn't. That speaks volumes as to what's going on. In another time they might've been together in a healthy relationship; but the war changed him into a survivalist and her into other peoples' puppet.

But again, this just may not be your type of movie.

Just wondering - did you watch in English or Chinese (there were several dialects)? Some of what I've heard is great about the film (but can't confirm) is its use of language.

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lady wakasa
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:32 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 5911 Location: Beyond the Blue Horizon
gromit wrote:
As for "exotic," I guess that term does have a questionable history in connection with Western dealings with Asia. But I'd apply it globally, as in whenever I see a film from a country/culture I'm unfamiliar with, it's more interesting because there is an anthropological lesson folded in. Meaning no matter the quality of the film itself, I'm going to learn about customs, and daily culture, and see some fascinating items which may be standard in that culture, but new to me.

For instance, I just picked up a new Chadian film Daratt (2007), which I expect will fit the bill.

But mostly I think I just don't like the themes and styles which are prevalent in modern Asian cinema.
I started off in the mid-90's with the early Zhang YiMou's and loved them, and not really sure I can name another recent Asian film I liked much since (not including Ang Lee's American output). Maybe just some lower key Japanese films, or anime such as Paprika.

I would say that Lust, Caution was one of the better ones I've seen. Though it left me dissatisfied, it was well done, with good casting (though weak characters, imo).

Green Fish was Lee Chang-dong's first film, and by most accounts his next two, Peppermint Candy and Oasis, are better. They are/were around but I haven't decided to give them a go. He also has a new film out (his 4th), Secret Sunshine.
Just doing a little research.

P Candy (1997) is about one man's life told in flashbacks which cover the turbulent history of Korea from Japanese occupation to the early 90's.
Oasis (1999) sounds interesting as a violent sociopath gets out of prison (shades of Green Fish), and decides to atone. He ends up in a relationship with a woman suffering from cerebral palsy. Sort of a "social outcasts attract" film, I gather.

They both sound like more assured efforts than Green Fish. Might have to track down Oasis now.


That's cool, re exotic. I didn't think you meant it in the Western sense (because you've mentioned having a Chinese girlfriend, and she probably would have disabused you of that notion if you had!). It does definitely have some negative connotations here (the term sets off several of my friends, and rightfully so), but then again you're not here.

For what it's worth, your description of "exoticism" is a good part of why I check out foreign films (among other things). I just like finding out how other people live, and how the movie is put together (over what the story is) speaks volumes to that.

One of the folks at the Korea Society (the guy who does their film blog) told me his favorite movie (at least Korean) is Peppermint Candy. I haven't had a chance to see it yet, though.

Secret Sunshine is very well done (although not my favorite either). And Jeon Do-yeon did win best actress at Cannes... I find with several Korean movies that I've watched, not much seems to be going on; then, about halfway through, there's an omigod moment, when I realize what's going on behind the scenes, and I can't stop watching after that point. Secret Sunshine definitely had that. I don't know if you've seen Im Kwon-taek's Chunhyang, but it's in there as well, when you find out why this woman is the pansori she is.

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jeremy
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:15 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 6794 Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
Rod wrote:
Saw Juno. Pleasant, well-acted but facile film that just manages to earn some cred by knifing a few official pieties. The music made me want to throw things at the screen.


I think the brief for the score was easily listening cool. I hated seeing building bricxks of my youth hewn from their context and harnessed to lend unearned emotion to this...I didn't like Juno.

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billyweeds
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:53 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20618 Location: New York City
http://tinyurl.com/yrnqek

Fascinating letter to RogerEbert.com which explains perfectly why I will never watch Funny Games at any time or in any place.
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marantzo
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:16 am Reply with quote
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billyweeds wrote:
http://tinyurl.com/yrnqek

Fascinating letter to RogerEbert.com which explains perfectly why I will never watch Funny Games at any time or in any place.


Nor I and I don't have to read the piece to come to that decision. It is beyond me to understand why someone would make a movie with that kind of nauseating theme and why people would go to it, other than the odd psychopathic sadist.
Marilyn
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:18 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 8210 Location: Skokie (not a bad movie, btw)
I see. You're afraid of throwing up in public.

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marantzo
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:43 am Reply with quote
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On the contrary, now that I've read Billy's link, I'm tempted to see the movie so I can repeat that woman's non-verbal critique of the movie.

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