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mo_flixx

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:59 am

Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533

Joe Vitus wrote:

Rod wrote:

Also adding to the hysterical atmosphere is Betty Field as a menopausal, late-married woman who’s pregnant

Why did I first misread that as "Betty Friedan"?

Where is Rod's orig. quote? I almost thought he meant SALLY Field.

mo_flixx

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:02 am

Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533

Joe Vitus wrote:

Yes, it was the draft that cut Vietnam short so quickly.

They changed the draft by having a lottery. My brother had been thinking of leaving the country until he got a lottery number over 300, which assured him that he would not have to fight in Vietnam.

Before the lottery, I knew a number of people who got 1Y deferments (psychiatric) to avoid Vietnam.

Rod

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:39 am

Joined: 21 Dec 2004 Posts: 2944 Location: Lithgow, Australia

Betty Field;

http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0275897/

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A long time ago, but somehow in the future...It is a period of civil war and renegade paragraphs floating through space.

Joe Vitus

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:33 am

Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston

mo_flixx wrote:

Joe Vitus wrote:

Yes, it was the draft that cut Vietnam short so quickly.

I've always been confused why everyone wasn't just a conscientious objector. I never heard of anyone being refused this right, so why didn't they utilize it?

By the way, how is the lottery different from the draft? Ignoring the intriguing Shirley Jackson quality of the thing, of course.

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Rod

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:40 am

Joined: 21 Dec 2004 Posts: 2944 Location: Lithgow, Australia

Being a conscientious objector has never been an easy path to take. It has to be proven, for one thing; evidence of pre-existing statements, coherent philosphical objections, religious faith, etc, to offer proof more susbstantial than simply "I don't like war" which is pretty much a given. Many governments can and have taken every opportunity to make the objector's life a living hell. In WW1 British conscies were imprisoned, often without clothes to force them to put on a uniform that was placed on a chair in their cell. In WW2 American COs like Robert Lowell and Dwight Macdonald were harassed and kept under surveillence.

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A long time ago, but somehow in the future...It is a period of civil war and renegade paragraphs floating through space.

lady wakasa

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:41 am

Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 5911 Location: Beyond the Blue Horizon

Joe Vitus wrote:

mo_flixx wrote:

Joe Vitus wrote:

Yes, it was the draft that cut Vietnam short so quickly.

You couldn't just say you're a conscientious objector to avoid military service. In the 1960s, objector status had to be based on religion, and in 1971 the Supreme Court stated that it could be broader but couldn't be based on a specific war.

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gromit

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:45 am

Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 9010 Location: Shanghai

Ask Mohammed Ali how easy it was to be a CO.

("No Viet Cong ever called me a nigger")

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Killing your enemies, if it's done badly, increases their number.

Rod

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 11:51 am

Joined: 21 Dec 2004 Posts: 2944 Location: Lithgow, Australia

I just finished watching Capote. A good, solid, reasonably compelling film tackled with commitment from all involved. But ultimately it lacked real purpose for existing other than painting the shadier aspects of writing about true crime even when dressed up as literature. It provided a fierce behavioral portrait of Truman Capote but not much by way of a psychological one, thus belying its title claim to being a character study. And in painting the background crime and criminals, it was highly inferior to Richard Brook's chilling, horribly beautiful film adapted straight from Capote's work; Clifton Collins' had nothing on Robert Blake's evocation of Perry Smith's poetic human disaster area. So it remained a portrayal of a situation, deft in its stream of small observations but catching little sense of the heat of turning this to art, or dire compulsion in Capote's relationship with Smith or anyone else much. Phil Hoffman gave me the shits with his overdone feyness but did deliver real emotional heft in the end.

_________________
A long time ago, but somehow in the future...It is a period of civil war and renegade paragraphs floating through space.

Joe Vitus

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:22 pm

Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston

Always interesting that you can get away with a post like that, while I always have to accept that I'll be roasted.

_________________
You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.

-Topher

mo_flixx

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:18 pm

Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533

Rod wrote:

Betty Field;

http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0275897/

I know who she is...I just wanted the orig. quote or the movie you were talking about. Thanx.

mo_flixx

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:19 pm

Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533

RE: Vietnam and CO's.

You pretty much had to be a life long Quaker to get CO status during Vietnam.

It was very difficult to get.

marantzo

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:34 pm

Guest

Quote:

Phil Hoffman gave me the shits with his overdone feyness but did deliver real emotional heft in the end.

How could one possible overdo the feyness of Capote? How did you like Winnipeg and surrounding area, including Winnipeg Beach which stood in for Spain and the Mediterranean?.[/quote]

marantzo

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:40 pm

Guest

Quote:

I've always been confused why everyone wasn't just a conscientious objector. I never heard of anyone being refused this right, so why didn't they utilize it?

Joe, where do you get your information from?

Quote:

Robert Lowell and Dwight Macdonald were harassed and kept under surveillence.

Rod, Macdonald at that time was an ardent Trotskyite, so I guarantee you that he was being kept under surveillance already. Don't know about Lowell.

Joe Vitus

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:47 pm

Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston

Quote:

I've always been confused why everyone wasn't just a conscientious objector. I never heard of anyone being refused this right, so why didn't they utilize it?

Joe, where do you get your information from?

I'm not sure I understand your question. I've met people over the years who were conscientious objectors. They came from all classes and walks of life. They all did the same thing. They registered as conscientious objectors and did not have to go to Vietnam. Not one ever mentioned any particuar difficulty. They had to write a little essay about why they wouldn't fight. They usually sited Ghandi or someone, and that was it. I know of no one who was denied this status. So why didn't more people use it?

_________________
You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.

-Topher

billyweeds

Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:00 pm

Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20618 Location: New York City

Joe Vitus wrote:

Quote:

Joe, I do understand what you mean, but what you don't understand is that in those days being a C.O. was considered just about as bad as being gay. Lew Ayres saw his film career almost go up in smoke because he was a C.O. Just for one example.

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