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billyweeds
Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 10:17 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20412 Location: New York City
Joss Whedon meets Captain Kirk in Smallville.
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Joe Vitus
Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 11:57 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
Thank you, Billy!
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sioux
Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 6:22 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 802 Location: philly burbs
YAHOOOOO!

thanks billy.
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Haiku
Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 7:47 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 123
Joy! Smile Smile
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Marilyn
Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 8:13 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 8210 Location: Skokie (not a bad movie, btw)
Rapture! And speaking of which, the WB reran the Angel finale last night. I came in somewhere in the middle, right when the battle between Angel and Hamilton was about to begin. Lorne was definitely the most poignant figure of the bunch, not really giving a Lindsay a good reason for why he was being eliminated, like he didn't really get it himself. Lindsay protesting that Angel was the one who was supposed to kill him, not a flunky. That didn't register. Lindsay expected there to be a showdown in which he lost? Any ideas? And I agree with the people who think Gunn probably died. Illyria said he had about 10 minutes to go; she seems to have an instinct for death. Finally, Angel saying he wanted to fight a dragon, one of the creatures rained down on them, reminded me of St. George and the Dragon. It was a good end after all.[/i]
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Haiku
Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 9:05 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 123
Marilyn wrote:
Rapture! [/i]


Nicely picked up!

I think that the fact that Lindsay expected to be killed by Angel was part of why Lindsay had to go. He had delusions of grandeure - he was going to be the upstart who brought down the world, switching sides when it suited him, having battles with the really important people, and if defeat were to come it would have come at the hand of someone at his level (ie. important). So, the ultimate defeat for Lindsay was to die at the hands of an underlying, thereby denying him his grand death and bringing him down several levels.

That the act of violence itself was repugnant to Lorne was one aspect of his "distasteful" comment, but it's my opinion that another aspect that was distasteful to him was to be the murdering lackey. Not a nice position for someone of his ilk to be in.

So, all the humans die. As they must, I guess. Blaze of Glory and all that.
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dlhavard
Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 9:29 am Reply with quote
Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 1352 Location: Detroit (where the slow are run over)
Laughing Hooray you used my "Alternate Universes" title. I'm so honored!

It was a good way for everyone to go, fighting the good fight.

In the end it was about choosing the way you want to die. Reminds me of my favorite line in LION IN WINTER: Richard: if all you can do is die, how is important.

They chose to go out in a blaze of glory, fighting the good fight.
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Haiku
Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 9:39 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 123
dlhavard wrote:
In the end it was about choosing the way you want to die.


Agree - As for Angel's Avengers, they're classic heroes dying in battle. As for Lindsay, the moment he realized his choice of death was not to be was the ultimate defeat.

Strange that Illyria could read someone's life force ebbing away, but she could no longer connect with plants. Her powers were a bit messy.
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lotang
Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 3:03 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 23 May 2004 Posts: 184
I didn't catch the comment about Illyria telling Gunn he had 10 minutes. So thanks. And her powers are messy since I don't think they were systematically syphoned off as much as just released. But for someone whom just has above average strength she certainly did a job on the car and the wizard. Re-reading the posts about the end suddenly reminded me of the end of Gallipoli where everyone know they are going to die and choose to run and charge anyways. The only true nobility is to choose.

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sioux
Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 4:39 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 802 Location: philly burbs
Wow I didn't get that all the humans died. That's right. Weird.
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Nancy
Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 6:25 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 4607 Location: Norman, OK
Great to see this forum! We needed it. I was sad to see the Angel finale. It was one of the few shows I still watched on TV. Loved Spike's poetry reading, though. "For Cecily" has never sounded better. And I'm not so sure that Angel's signing away the Shanshu prophecy would actually keep it from happening to him. Maybe W&H just thought it would. They could be wrong. And prophecies are tricky things. The Hamburger Loa's prediction that "the son will kill the father" didn't come true (though not for want to trying -- what a cliffhanger that was!) Also, Angel had wanted to become human for Buffy, but she seems to have moved on, so the impulse may not be as strong anymore.

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Joe Vitus
Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 1:23 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
Marilyn,

I thought Lorne said pretty specifically that Linsdey had to die because he wasn't part of the solution. I thought he was saying that Lindsey's statements of being on the "right side" again and "feeling good about it" were bullshit and everyone realized he'd be turning on the gang whenever it suited him to do so. Thus he had to die.
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lotang
Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 3:13 am Reply with quote
Joined: 23 May 2004 Posts: 184
Nancy

And as far as prophecy goes, I find it ironic that W&H kept Angel around because he was destined to play a role in the Apocolypse but that it was unclear for which side. So by bringing him into the inner sanctum they actually fulfilled the prophecy and hurt themselves simultaneously.

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dlhavard
Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 9:29 am Reply with quote
Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 1352 Location: Detroit (where the slow are run over)
As for the Apocolypse, it's ironic that WR&H were thinking of the apocolypse for OTHER PEOPLE when they picked Angel. They didn't realize that the apocolypse Angel rained down upon them was for THEM. (And how great was that!)

Anybody watching Enterprise? It's getting worse and worse. Mostly fantastic special effects overwhelming the actors. As for the plots!? There have been so many "alternate universes" (and they have a new one for the NEXT season) I no longer keep track and have given up.
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Joe Vitus
Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 9:42 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
I've never watched a full episode of Enterprise. It just doesn't hold my attention. Which, I guess, is largely true for all Star Trek series. Deep Space 9 and Voyager are the only ones I watched regularly, and Voyager is the only one that holds up for me on repeat viewings.
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