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| bartist |
 Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:33 am |
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Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 6944
Location: Black Hills
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What gets me is the Right worry that somehow religious freedom is somehow threatened by all this, that judicial activism is attacking the church. Absurd, because no one is forcing a church to conduct a gay marriage. Many sects now do gay marriage, many don't. Everyone can choose.
On another website, we had someone, usually reasonable, frustra-posting that SCOTUS had taken down "thousands of years of tradition" by redefining marriage. It was pointed out that many recent institutions, like democracy, were established by taking down thousands of years of tradition (monarchy, feudalism, tribalism, etc.). |
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| carrobin |
| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:40 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 7795
Location: NYC
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| It used to be that "tradition" and "culture" and "honor" were good things. Now it's clear that those words and concepts are used to defend some rather unsavory habits--many of them misogynistic but others simply out of date and hurtful to some groups. The Confederate flag comes to mind. |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:54 am |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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Location: Shanghai
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It's interesting how quickly things have evolved. They use to say marriage was for procreation and to protect children. But logically that is weak, because infertile people, women beyond childbearing age, and those not planning to have children can marry. But moreover, these days, plenty of gay people have adopted while others have biological children from one of the pair, and other arrangements such as surrogate mothers as well. In other words, gays are raising kids who are denied legal rights and married parents.
CJ Roberts says that the political/democratic process should be allowed to play out. But unclear why folks should suffer harm and be discriminated against in the meantime. And the political process has resulted in (a) conflict between federal law on the matter, which is one condition allowing for SCOTUS review, (b) some states not recognizing other states valid legal actions, in violation of the Constitution and (c) basically a polarization between liberal northern and West Coast states and the conservative south and west, mirroring the current political divide. It's not as if Texas or Alabama was ever going to willingly allow gay marriage of their own accord. So what's to wait for, just the usual political divide to become further entrenched? |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:01 pm |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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Location: Shanghai
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Kennedy's majority opinion discusses how the concept of marriage has evolved. How the concept of coverture, whereby a wife and husband basically become one legal entity controlled by the husband. That interracial marriage was long banned. Doesn't mention no-fault divorce, but that's obviously altered marriage significantly.
Roberts does bring up the notion of plural marriage and wonders how you can limit marriage to just two people, instead of say three or more. And then there's bigamy laws to contend with. . . |
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| bartist |
| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:32 pm |
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Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 6944
Location: Black Hills
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| I genuinely fear a marriage bed where TWO people can steal my covers. I'm willing to take this to SCOTUS. |
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| yambu |
| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:40 pm |
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Joined: 23 May 2004
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Location: SF Bay Area
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| gromit |
| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:14 am |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 9008
Location: Shanghai
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Let's set aside why I was reading about Magilla Gorilla on wikipedia for a minute and consider this:
Quote: The trials of Magilla mirrored the attitudes that American citizens had towards racial integration during the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s. Some say The Magilla Gorilla Show perpetuated the idea that non-whites should be segregated, with Peebles selling Magilla to white customers who would invariably return him to the pet shop by the end of each episode
Sounds like a bunch of hooey to me. Sure the show and integration were happening in the same general time frame. But that seems a classic case of reading to much into a cartoon with a very simple premise. There's only so much that can go in in the pet store. And customers who buy Magilla allow for numerous plots. The return simply sets up a different adventure the next week. Not to mention that it seems rather offensive to interpret the gorilla as a stand in for black people. Been a while since I've seen it, but I don't recall Magilla acting in any way black. Methinks someone got too far off the track with analyzing the concept of "other." |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:53 am |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 9008
Location: Shanghai
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Let's set aside why I was reading about Magilla Gorilla on wikipedia for a minute and consider this:
Quote: The trials of Magilla mirrored the attitudes that American citizens had towards racial integration during the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s. Some say The Magilla Gorilla Show perpetuated the idea that non-whites should be segregated, with Peebles selling Magilla to white customers who would invariably return him to the pet shop by the end of each episode
Sounds like a bunch of hooey to me. Sure the show and integration were happening in the same general time frame. But that seems a classic case of reading to much into a cartoon with a very simple premise. There's only so much that can go in in the pet store. And customers who buy Magilla allow for numerous plots. The return simply sets up a different adventure the next week. Not to mention that it seems rather offensive to interpret the gorilla as a stand in for black people. Been a while since I've seen it, but I don't recall Magilla acting in any way black. Methinks someone got too far off the track with analyzing the concept of "other." |
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| carrobin |
| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:00 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 7795
Location: NYC
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There seems to be a supersensitivity at the moment. (I didn't watch Magilla Gorilla much, but I don't remember the gorilla being particularly race-related.) Right now the Confederate flag is the flashpoint; the cancellation of old "Dukes of Hazard" episodes has my SC relatives--who are all in favor of the flag being removed from the State House grounds--grumbling "give them an inch and they'll take a mile." A movie reviewer in the NY Post even had a commentary condemning "Gone With the Wind"--I didn't see the article, but apparently he claimed that it's racist. The flag has been around for all these years, and nobody has thought much about it, but now suddenly it's the equivalent of the swastika, because a racist murderer flaunted it on his Facebook page. I can understand the feelings of the black critics, but there seems to be a rush of white political correctness that aims to wipe out every element of nostalgia for the American South, good or bad.
It reminds me of a discussion I had with Connie Rutherford, my supervisor at HBJ back in the '80s. She was black; her family had moved to Chicago when she was a child to escape Southern racism, and had found similar attitudes in the North. One of her brothers had gone to France and become a doctor. We were discussing "Amos and Andy," which she said had made her feel embarrassed--she was about ten years older than me, a teenager when it was on TV. I could see her point, but I told her that I had enjoyed the show and it was a revelation to me, a kid in South Carolina, that there were black lawyers and doctors and other professionals--you didn't see those in SC, at least not in the white community. And Kingfish was virtually the same character as the protagonists of hit white comedies like "You'll Never Get Rich" or "The Life of Riley" or "The Honeymooners."
Which reminds me that I once read a criticism of "The Honeymooners" that accused Ralph of being a wife abuser because he was always threatening to send Alice "to the moon." Way too sensitive. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:42 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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THough I am totally on board with getting rid of the Confederate flag in all official contexts, the Dukes of Hazzard dustup is iMO completely ridiculous. That is the quintessence of silly political correctness.
And GWTW is not racist. Period. End of paragraph. |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:46 pm |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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Location: Shanghai
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I don't think it's really been a sudden thing. Hasn't the Confederate flag statehouse issue popped up once a decade since the 80's or 90's?
I seem to recall a big to-do about it in Georgia in the 90's(?)
And pressure on SC a decade back.
The Confederate Battle Flag was largely resurrected as a 20th C symbol by the KKK, I believe. |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:56 pm |
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| carrobin |
| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:30 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: NYC
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The Confederate flag used to fly over the S.C. State House along with the U.S. flag, and protests led to it being taken down and flown on the State House grounds instead. I don't know when that happened because by then I was in NYC and none of my relatives bothered to mention it. I do remember that some years ago the proprietor of Piggie Park, a string of barbecue restaurants, had a kerfluffle because he had the flag all around the restaurants as a kind of motif; he huffed and puffed but ended up taking it down. (I didn't see any sign of it when I was there in early June for my mother's birthday. Piggie Park has the best hushpuppies in the known universe, so I always try to get over there when I'm in town.)
P.S. Nice news item. Though I think the name should probably be Lucifer, rather than Satan or Baphomet or whatever. But then I don't keep up with all the literature. |
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| bartist |
| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:20 pm |
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Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 6944
Location: Black Hills
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"Piggie Park" is weightist. They should be driven out of town!
Happy 4th, y'all.
We're off to see a matinee, Far from the Madding Crows, which we anticipate will be just that.
ok, see the typo, not fixing it... |
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| Syd |
| Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:58 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 12890
Location: Norman, Oklahoma
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billyweeds wrote: THough I am totally on board with getting rid of the Confederate flag in all official contexts, the Dukes of Hazzard dustup is iMO completely ridiculous. That is the quintessence of silly political correctness.
And GWTW is not racist. Period. End of paragraph.
Although in the case of the guy who owns one of the General Lee's and is going to paint over the flag, I say it's his car and his right to do so. There's been a lot of silliness all around with one video game company temporarily removing its Civil War games because the Confederate units shockingly displayed their battle flag while fighting battles. |
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