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| gromit |
 Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:01 am |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 9008
Location: Shanghai
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I assume Mass doesn't have capital punishment, but it'd be easy to charge someone with a federal crime likely punishable by death.
I'd be surprised if they take the younger brother alive.
His older brother was killed while wearing an explosive device.
But who knows how it will play out.
He could surrender, though it sounds like he's more likely to blow up his apartment/self/police.
There could be another accomplice of sorts, though it seems most likely it was just these two wackos. |
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Killing your enemies, if it's done badly, increases their number. |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:40 pm |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 9008
Location: Shanghai
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Seems a bad precedent to allow two young terrorists with crude bombs lockdown an entire city.
Also, if these guys are/were so dangerous, what the hell was the President doing there the other day? |
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Killing your enemies, if it's done badly, increases their number. |
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| carrobin |
| Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:46 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 7795
Location: NYC
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| I've been wondering--can a bomb-sniffing dog smell a bomb in a pressure cooker? Seems unlikely, unless the explosive has spilled or smeared on the surface. |
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| jeremy |
| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:29 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6794
Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
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You explode a pressure cooker full of nails and other crippling metal oddments in a public space full of people sharing a communal moment and you step outside all civilised boundaries and the considerations that accompany that. There is no escaping that the two young men who perpertrated this act, one of whom is now dead and the other, lying critically wounded in hospital (and receiving the best care) were the architects of their own fate. They committted an atrocity, but were also part of a pathetic tragedy.
I can empathise with the people of Boston, but I can't share the jubilation of some their number at the ending of this incident: a confused, alienated, 17-year-old immigrant shot by the police while lying injured under the covers of small recreational boat. There were no winners here. |
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I am angry, I am ill, and I'm as ugly as sin.
My irritability keeps me alive and kicking.
I know the meaning of life, it doesn't help me a bit.
I know beauty and I know a good thing when I see it. |
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| lshap |
| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:05 am |
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Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 4246
Location: Montreal
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jeremy wrote: You explode a pressure cooker full of nails and other crippling metal oddments in a public space full of people sharing a communal moment and you step outside all civilised boundaries and the considerations that accompany that. There is no escaping that the two young men who perpertrated this act, one of whom is now dead and the other, lying critically wounded in hospital (and receiving the best care) were the architects of their own fate. They committted an atrocity, but were also part of a pathetic tragedy.
I can empathise with the people of Boston, but I can't share the jubilation of some their number at the ending of this incident: a confused, alienated, 17-year-old immigrant shot by the police while lying injured under the covers of small recreational boat. There were no winners here.
If by, "Confused", you meant, "Calculating sociopath with no regard for human life", then we're in complete agreement.
To do:
- Plan multiple bombings
- Aim for maximum carnage
- Run like hell
- Assassinate a cop or two |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:28 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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| Jeremy--Words cannot begin to describe how thoroughly I disagree with your bleeding-heart-liberal attitude toward a disgusting piece of human slime. |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:47 am |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 9008
Location: Shanghai
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First off he was 19. So a young adult.
And while he was an immigrant -- born in Kyrgyzstan apparently -- he has lived in the US for 10 or 11 years, so since age 9 or so. So he's been in the US since around 3rd grade, more than half his life, growing up and friends with people very similar to the ones he chose to attack and terrorize.
One would assume his older brother -- age 26 -- was the leader. And it looks that way from the videos of them at the Marathon. He also approached it as a suicide mission -- walking towards police, reportedly firing a gun and wearing an explosive device. The older brother was out of the country, in and around Chechnya apparently, for 6 months last year. Perhaps where/when he got radicalized (?)
But this 19 year old is fully culpable for murder and mayhem. He participated willingly, when he could have reported his brother to authorities. I'm damn glad they caught him, but really would have preferred that he was killed or killed himself. Then he would just be finished and gone. No trial, no chance for him to put forward his warped worldview or grievances. No chance to criticize America or rile folks by wrapping himself in Islam/jihad.
I assume law enforcement prefers having a live perpetrator, in order to glean info and learn as much as possible. And that is useful, especially if there were others involved (or sympathetic). But as far as this discrete incident/series of incidents, I would preferred a bullet ended it/him.
Law enforcement and justice comes out a winner if you ask me.
I thought it was an interesting sidenote the role of the internet. Within roughly 20 mins of the marathon suspects photos being released, internet folks identified the 2 hats the guys were wearing. Had to be faster than the police could do it. The black Bridgestone hat was identified quickly, the white hat was tougher and initially they thought it had a 7 on the side. Netizens thought it looked most like a Ralph Lauren Polo hat, but that one is only sold with a #3 on the side.
A little while later, 2 people see the photos, look through their own photos and find they have snaps of the two suspects. These photos reveal a better front facial view of the suspects, and confirm the white hat indeed has a #3 on the side. Netizens also note which stores sell these hats (I think ti was primarily KMart for the white one), so a possible lead on where the pressure cookers were purchased.
I am interested in what kind of guns they had, and where they were purchased/obtained. Also, you'd think law enforcement might want to contact Walmart and KMart and go through records of young males, especially with foreign names, buying pressure cookers. Stores would have records of all items sold, surveillance cameras could capture images to match the time and checkout counter when a pressure cooker is purchased. Even easier if they use a credit card for the purchase. |
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Killing your enemies, if it's done badly, increases their number. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:18 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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| I'm really glad they took him alive. We need to hear things. |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:35 am |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 9008
Location: Shanghai
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I'll admit I'm curious to know more, but would prefer he's just dead and gone.
I think I agree with Uncle Ruslan, they were a pair of losers who disgraced their family, ethnicity, religion, and mankind ...
Here's a pretty stunning picture of the 19 year old, apparently just after he deposited the backpack which can be seen on the ground. He might have lingered there a little bit until he felt it was safe to walk away and abandon the bag. I assume the timer had 5 or more minutes when placed. (I'm not clear on the time they were spotted planting the bags and when they went off)
In the photo, the 8 year old boy who was killed and his younger sister who lost a leg are right there in the photo. And I assume that trio of girls got maimed pretty badly. Likely amputees now. I wouldn't be surprised if he intentionally left it near young people figuring they'd be less likely to notice or question him about leaving a bag unattended. So he might have deliberately targeted kids and young girls in order to avoid detection and the possibility of any confrontation.
Real real difficult to feel one bit of sympathy for someone who intentionally bombed kids and regular folks standing along a public street watching a sports event. |
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Killing your enemies, if it's done badly, increases their number. |
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| bartist |
| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:52 am |
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Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 6944
Location: Black Hills
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I'd also cast a vote for the value of taking him alive and learning something, if possible, about how these two - esp. the older brother - could become so estranged from a life that sounded to be a step up from Dagestan or Chechnya. I lived in Boston - it's one of the friendliest and most tolerant places you could hope to find in this country - and it sounds like, on the surface, both found these qualities, as well as social approval for athletic talents. Maybe, as is often the case with sociopaths, we just cannot really know where and how they got broken.
But, if we could learn something, might it not help us in the future to spot youth who are at risk? Anything that could be added to the sum of our present knowledge about this kind of thing is worth pursuing.
The manhunt ended just a few blocks from where I lived. We were a couple blocks south of the river, in Newton, and the boat/house was just north of the river. Some of the street shots were shockingly familiar to me, even 40 years later. |
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He was wise beyond his years, but only by a few days. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:04 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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| gromit--Thanks so much for the horrifying photo, which I posted on Facebook and got a lot of response. |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:24 am |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 9008
Location: Shanghai
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Looking more closely at that photo, and zooming in, it looks like the backpack/bomb was left right next to the small tree.
Which makes more sense then say leaving it in the middle of the sidewalk. And the girl in sunglasses next to the little boy who was killed is on the other side of the small tree, and might have been somewhat protected by it (?). Also, she has one leg up against the tree, and having her leg up off the ground to almost knee level, might have helped her as well.
Actually it looks like there was some protective enclosure around the base of the tree, as the top looks fairly thin, perhaps 6-8 inches in diameter, while the bottom looks much bigger.
Anyway, a real chilling photograph. |
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Killing your enemies, if it's done badly, increases their number. |
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| jeremy |
| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:05 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6794
Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
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| More American's kiiled this year by young sociopaths with guns than young sociapaths with pressure cookers. I don't think it's time for background checks on people buying cooking implements just yet. |
_________________
I am angry, I am ill, and I'm as ugly as sin.
My irritability keeps me alive and kicking.
I know the meaning of life, it doesn't help me a bit.
I know beauty and I know a good thing when I see it. |
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| bartist |
| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:07 am |
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Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 6944
Location: Black Hills
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Uh...my posting above should not be construed as expressing ANY sympathy for these slimeballs. I was saying that anything that could be understood about keeping other youth from turning into them, would be useful. My interest in bringing in the fellow alive is pragmatic, not kindly.
EDIT - just saw your post, and HELLO, Jeremy. And I agree, though I wish someone had stopped my ex-wife from buying a pressure cooker. I never had the heart to tell her that it doesn't really make the best chicken. |
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He was wise beyond his years, but only by a few days. |
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| bartist |
| Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:33 am |
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Joined: 27 Apr 2010
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Location: Black Hills
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