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marantzo
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:24 am Reply with quote
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Hi sioux. How do you do?

I know that some Schizophrenic's meds can be a drain on their life force, so to speak, and they miss their more alive state, but the few schizophrenics I've known, I have no knowledge of their history or present condition.

Bi-polar is a different field for me as I know a number of people with this disorder and I know about their history with it and their current situation. The only reaction against taking Meds that actually eliminate the disorder (People are very lucky when they find one), that I have seen, is when the subject believes that through force of will they can stave off the disorder. That is nonsense of course, but some people believe nonsense, and as a result they end up in a bad state. I've never heard of a bi-polar's med being one that left them in some kind of "out there" state.
billyweeds
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:32 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20618 Location: New York City
Hi, sioux!
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bartist
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:41 am Reply with quote
Joined: 27 Apr 2010 Posts: 6949 Location: Black Hills
Hi Sioux, I remember you, and with a slightly longer handle at the old NYT, some kind of suffix on the "Sioux."

Betsy:

Quote:
Bart........I'm on the same page with you. I intuit that a gun speaks to the owner and says "Here I am, grab me, use me." I taught a student who when 16 went out after midnight to egg cars with his friends. Just his luck that one driver of an egged car had a gun within easy reach. 16 yr. old dead.




The mere fact that someone would shoot somebody over some egg on their car is a good anecdotal argument that guns are not a device that works well with impulsive human nature. My god, that is a horrible story.

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marantzo
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:52 am Reply with quote
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That story is strange for me. When I was in Fine Arts I thought of making a short film with a series of different scenes, that said something. Laughing My favourite imagining was a scene with a shiny black car going down a snowy street. A bunch of kids throw snowballs at it when it passes. The car keeps going at a leisurely pace, it's trunk opens, A small cannon appears and fires. The kids are wiped out. The trunk closes and the car continues it's trip.
Joe Vitus
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:17 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
billyweeds wrote:
About Barack Obama, what can one say except that he has fulfilled every expectation I ever had of him. His speech last night in Tucson takes its place with the greatest healing moments in American history. Not quite the Gettysburg Address--what could be?--but close enough. Even Fox News had to agree, and that's quite something.

As for Sarah Palin, I hope she becomes a pariah to people everywhere, a universal symbol of stupidity and insensitivity. She is far worse than a moron; she is a moral leper.

If this be "uncivil discourse," I plead guilty. But Palin deserves it.


The second half of your post is out of sync with the first. I suspect you weren't really listening to him at all.

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bartist
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:01 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 27 Apr 2010 Posts: 6949 Location: Black Hills
Gary, love that image, with the cannon and all. I've had a similar idea but involving a car that is being tailgated. Specifically, mine. Very Happy

Billy, c'mon, tell us how you really feel about Sarah P.

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yambu
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:10 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 23 May 2004 Posts: 6441 Location: SF Bay Area
marantzo wrote:
....Bi-polar is a different field for me as I know a number of people with this disorder and I know about their history with it and their current situation. The only reaction against taking Meds that actually eliminate the disorder (People are very lucky when they find one), that I have seen, is when the subject believes that through force of will they can stave off the disorder. That is nonsense of course, but some people believe nonsense, and as a result they end up in a bad state. I've never heard of a bi-polar's med being one that left them in some kind of "out there" state.
I'm bipolar. I take lithium and clonopin to keep right. I think I'm doing ok.
Whenever I see someone on the street talking to themselves, I wonder, would a few simple pills every day bring him out of his hell.
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yambu
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:31 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 23 May 2004 Posts: 6441 Location: SF Bay Area
All week long, Mathews, O'Donnelll and Olbermann were trying to make the connection between the shooter and the use of all the gun metaphors of the right, while saying they were not doing it. They repeatedly flashed the famous Palin map showing gunsights over each congressional swing district.
Obama spoke directly to MSNBC without naming them, and said there was no connection between the rhetoric and the shooting.
That didn't even slow down the trio. Last night all three were still making the same "arguement", showing the same map, as though the President had never addressed it.
I'm not in the habit of defending Palin, but she was right to speak to it, although her timing and choice of words could have been better.
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carrobin
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:06 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 7795 Location: NYC
From Robert Wright's "Opinionator" column in the NY Times, an observation that fits my view of the current situation in this country:

Six months ago, police in California pulled over a truck that turned out to contain a rifle, a handgun, a shotgun and body armor. Police learned from the driver — sometime after he opened fire on them — that he was heading for San Francisco, where he planned to kill people at the Tides Foundation. You’ve probably never heard of the Tides Foundation — unless you watch Glenn Beck, who had mentioned it more than two dozen times in the preceding six months, depicting it as part of a communist plot to “infiltrate” our society and seize control of big business.
Note the parallel with Loughner’s case. Loughner was convinced that a conspiracy was afoot — a conspiracy by the government to control our thoughts (via grammar, in his bizarre worldview). So he decided to kill one of the conspirators.
It’s not clear where Loughner got his conspiracy theory. The leading contender is a self-styled “king of Hawaii” who harbors, along with his beliefs about government mind control, a conviction that the world will end next year. But it doesn’t matter who Loughner got the idea from or whether you consider it left wing or right wing. The point is that Americans who wildly depict other Americans as dark conspirators, as the enemy, are in fact increasing the chances, however marginally, that those Americans will be attacked.
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whiskeypriest
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:15 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 6916 Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
billyweeds wrote:
About Barack Obama, what can one say except that he has fulfilled every expectation I ever had of him. His speech last night in Tucson takes its place with the greatest healing moments in American history. Not quite the Gettysburg Address--what could be?--but close enough. Even Fox News had to agree, and that's quite something.

As for Sarah Palin, I hope she becomes a pariah to people everywhere, a universal symbol of stupidity and insensitivity. She is far worse than a moron; she is a moral leper.
If this be "uncivil discourse," I plead guilty. But Palin deserves it.
She's a cockroach, billy. She will survive a nuclear attack and crawl about in its aftermath, unless she gets caught in bed with a live woman or a dead man, as they say. And while that's an old political joke it is also, given her constituency, pretty much literal. I spent some time Monday with a group of Palinites. They were already anticipating her video, except for the "blood libe" tonedeafnessy thing. There is literally very little she can do that would not be excused by them.

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carrobin
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:24 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 7795 Location: NYC
I suspect that she didn't even know what "blood libel" means--it's probably something she heard somewhere once and it came to mind as a neat phrase to use. Though invoking a Nazi-esque comparison to liberal media would be just her kind of trick.
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Befade
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:35 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 3784 Location: AZ
Quote:
All week long, Mathews, O'Donnelll and Olbermann were trying to make the connection between the shooter and the use of all the gun metaphors of the right, while saying they were not doing it.


That's too bad. This really is a time for self-reflection. Of course it would be great if Palin just went away. But better to ignore her.

Particularly after last night's event in Tucson. Not just a great presidential speech.......but knowing that the people in that city are inspirational themselves. Makes me want to go down and feel the love.

Bart........I know that's a chilling story. His mother was a teacher. His father a police man. He was an unusual kid. Blonde, green-eyed, mixed race, chunky and big for his age.....pretty passive and dreamy type kid. His mother doted on him. They never caught the killer.

Gary......wow.........I like your idea for a film......different takes on events.

By the way........the new health care bill will bring funding to mental health care........I don't know the details.

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whiskeypriest
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:57 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 6916 Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
Anyway, what's happening is what I suspected would happen. Rather than tea party political, the shooter's motivation is more in the Preserve Our Essence/He can see no reasons 'cuz there are no reasons mode, and the Olbermans who jumped on specific personalities are the ones being hit by the backlash. Meaning when a tea partier eventually slips a gear, Palin and her ilk will have a ready made defense. "The media is at it again!"

It is a capital mistake to theorize without facts, as Sherlock Holmes noted. And that's what a lot of the media did.

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gromit
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:29 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 9008 Location: Shanghai
Marj,
A little while back we were talking about Father Coughlin and the Christian Front upon which the film Focus is based.
I just ran across more good old American fascism from the 30's -- William Dudley Pelley founder of the Silver Legion.

Quote:

When the Great Depression struck America in 1929, Pelley became active in politics. After moving to Asheville, Pelley founded Galahad College in 1932. The college specialized in correspondence, "Social Metaphysics," and "Christian Economics" courses. He also founded Galahad Press, which he used to publish various political and metaphysical magazines, newspapers, and books.

On January 30, 1933, the day Adolf Hitler was appointed Chancellor of Germany, Pelley, an admirer of Hitler, was inspired to form a political movement. On that day, he founded the Silver Legion, an extremist and antisemitic organization whose followers (known as the Silver Shirts and "Christian Patriots") wore Nazi-like silver uniforms. The Silver Legion's emblem was a scarlet L, which was featured on their flags and uniforms. Pelley founded chapters of the Silver Legion in almost every state in the country, and soon gained a considerable number of followers.

Pelley traveled throughout the United States and holding mass rallies, lectures, and public speeches in order to attract Americans to his organization. Pelley's political ideology essentially consisted of anti-Communism, antisemitism, racism, extreme patriotism, and isolationism, themes which were the primary focus of his numerous magazines and newspapers, which included Liberation, Pelley's Silvershirt Weekly, The Galilean, and The New Liberator.

Pelley was also a committed Protestant and opponent of Franklin Delano Roosevelt and the New Deal, and founded the Christian Party, running for president in 1936. His pro-fascist advocacy angered Roosevelt and his supporters, and charges were drawn up against the Silver Shirts in 1940.

Bad economic times, especially mass unemployment, encourages the yahoos to organize.


Last edited by gromit on Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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carrobin
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:58 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 7795 Location: NYC
It's too true, hard times rev up the paranoia and mindless reactions of too many people (sure, sometimes hard times bring people together, but that seems less of a trend and more of a myth). There's an attitude of "they're taking away my money/freedom/power/opportunity/guns/whatever"--and whoever is identified as "they," usually politicians and/or foreigners, is the villain. Take out the villain, and everything will be all right again. I guess you could call it normal insanity.
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