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Befade
Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:35 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 3637 Location: AZ
Wish you could be here for the DTK talk Marc. Have a good visit with your father and a good trip to NY (how could you have a bad one there?)

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gromit
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:34 am Reply with quote
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 8591 Location: Shanghai
Befade, my sketchy notes are helping me recall the film. I'll mention a few things and do some more when I have more time to think and piece things together.

If you've watched a few BDP films, the common themes and signature techniques are pretty easy to recognize. Again we have doubling, this time one character split into two personalities.

BDP re-uses his old split screen trick, but here it seems a bit silly in two flashbacks -- to show when Angie drops her gloves and her panties.
The glint on the razor is a clear echo of Obsession.
I hate BDP's clumsy close-ups to make something obvious. In DtK, we get this at least twice to show something is missing -- no panties and no razor. Another brief clumsy moment is when a cab door doesn't shut properly.

The snooping around in the sexy outfit was like some silly, horny, juvenile male fantasy -- and this boyish immaturity runs through BDP's work.

Two questions:
If the Dr. wanted to kill Angie, why did he stay up on the 7th floor? There was no way of knowing that she was going to return.

And late in the film, Nancy Allen knows that the killer knows where she lives, so why does she still return home? (edited into question form)

It was another moment where I thought someone should go to the police, but no one does. I realize this is fairly standard in the filmiverse (using or not suing police as needed), but the reasons for not going seemed rather unconvincing. Of course, later, we learn why Caine avoids the police. But Nancy Allen and the kid certainly had reason to go to the coppers. Btw, I think I liked technokid the best in the film.

That's most of what I've got, a bit jumbled, and saving the ending for later.


Last edited by gromit on Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:46 am; edited 4 times in total

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Befade
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:48 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 3637 Location: AZ
Gromit......I don't think De Palma is intelligent enough for you.....or serious enough for you.

clumsy close-ups:

When Angie notices her wedding ring is not on her finger and goes back up.

That wasn't really clumsy. I noticed alot of very slow panning which would not pass in a currently made film. DTK was 1980.

technokid:

He was Brian De Palma's alter-ego. De Palma was just like that kid......building a computer in his room while his mom complained about his staying up all night.

snooping around in the sexy outfit:

She was a hooker after all. Did you notice the man-style pajamas she wore at her apartment when the boy was there?

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gromit
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:26 am Reply with quote
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 8591 Location: Shanghai
Betsy, I'm not a DePalma fan and would probably keep quiet(er) if there was more activity here. I think his films have a lot of cheesy moments, both in terms of plot, character, and direction.

BUT it turns out I had many of his films sitting here unwatched (Sisters, The Fury, Obsession). I also picked up Scarface and Carlito's Way because they sounded like more serious mature works. Which relatively speaking they certainly are.
I will likely pick up The Untouchables when we get that far. I think I've seen it around.

Prior to this forum I think I had only seen 2 of his real early films (Wedding Party and Greetings) plus Carrie (okay-ish) and Snake Eyes which I hated.


Last edited by gromit on Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:46 am; edited 2 times in total

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Joe Vitus
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:27 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
While I totally disagree with just about every post you've made about his movies, I think your take is a valuable one to have here. And of course, whether I agree or not, you comment intelligently on his work.

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billyweeds
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:32 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20405 Location: New York City
Marc wrote:
I appreciate you guys keeping this forum popping. I have to go to my father's tomorrow. And then to NYC on Monday. I'll be marginally active in the forums.


I never seem to have received a copy of DTK, but no matter. Have a good trip, Marc, and try to connect in NYC. I'd love to see you. Be well, and best to your father.
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marantzo
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:48 am Reply with quote
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I really haven't been able to catch up on those films here. So I haven't seen BDK or DTK, but I feel I should comment anyway because I want this forum to be lively. I'm of two minds concerning BDK and DTK. I like them or I don't, but maybe I like BDK and not DTK or the other way around. I haven't seen them and I haven't made up my mind. Maybe cheesy but entertaining or weighty but pretentious. That's my non-opinion and I'm sticking to it.
billyweeds
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:09 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20405 Location: New York City
marantzo wrote:
I really haven't been able to catch up on those films here. So I haven't seen BDK or DTK, but I feel I should comment anyway because I want this forum to be lively. I'm of two minds concerning BDK and DTK. I like them or I don't, but maybe I like BDK and not DTK or the other way around. I haven't seen them and I haven't made up my mind. Maybe cheesy but entertaining or weighty but pretentious. That's my non-opinion and I'm sticking to it.


What in the world is BDK?
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marantzo
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:21 am Reply with quote
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It should have been BDP. I figured the initials were Body Double something, but didn't know what the third word was and mistakenly changed to "P" to "K".
billyweeds
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:35 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20405 Location: New York City
BDP would be Brian De Palma. Or (in www.com speak, "bodydoublepicture.")
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gromit
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:06 am Reply with quote
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 8591 Location: Shanghai
Joe Vitus wrote:
While I totally disagree with just about every post you've made about his movies, I think your take is a valuable one to have here. And of course, whether I agree or not, you comment intelligently on his work.

Them's fighting words. Oh wait, no they're not.
Really I figure that DePalma's films are just not for me, or that I'm not the target audience. I'm also not too impressed with most thrillers and neo-noirs from the last few decades. So it's partly the genre, as much as BDeP's incompetence.

I do love noirs and post-war thrillers, but mainly for the atmosphere and characters, without worrying much if the plot makes sense or goes off the rails a few times. If you'll remember I was the one who pushed for including Gilda in an earlier forum (much to Marilyn's disapproval). But prior to the plane crash and subsequent highjinks, the first half of Gilda is top notch. Great opening, character intros, and did I mention Rita's legs yet.

(Tangent to my tangential tangent, my parents visited Shanghai for the first time this Spring, and while I was getting something to drink, they debated which movie star was on the poster above my kitchen door. Moms nailed it: Rita Hayworth. Now I forget my Father's two wrong guesses).

And I apologize for all of my poor typing and editing errors. I'm usually doing a few internet things at once, also maybe while eating or pleasuring the cat. I finally put a light on my desk, so I can actually see the keyboard instead of typing by the semi-glow of the monitor. I do tend to re-read my posts later -- to remember what I thought -- and edit them when I spot mistakes.

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marantzo
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:59 am Reply with quote
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billyweeds wrote:
BDP would be Brian De Palma. Or (in www.com speak, "bodydoublepicture.")


Silly me!
Marj
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:12 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
Gromit wrote:
Quote:
Two questions:
If the Dr. wanted to kill Angie, why did he stay up on the 7th floor? There was no way of knowing that she was going to return.

And late in the film, Nancy Allen knows that the killer knows where she lives, so why does she still return home? (edited into question form)


I love these questions. I noticed the same things too. And I've come to believe which is difficult since I like my puzzles or mysteries sans plot holes, that DTK is more style than substance. It's a sexual thriller with a mystery. Had the mystery been downplayed perhaps the film might have worked better.

My biggest plot contrivance was when the detective told Liz that a search warrant would take days to obtain and then talked her into sleuthing. Ridiculous!! Oh! Wait! This actually happened. To Me!! Of course when I did some sleuthing the police were with me so I was never in any danger. But still the search warrant could have been obtained ovenight if necessary.

So I can, with difficulty, enjoy a film with plot holes if the style works. In truth the plot holes made me laugh. I guess that comes from watching a whole lot of De Palma.
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Befade
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:47 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 3637 Location: AZ
Marj.......DTK definitely has style, especially with Angie's scenes. How do you rate it among your favorite De Palma's?

De Palma does have his goofy side. Remember William Finley? The doctor/husband in Sisters and the musician/phantom in The Phantom of the Paradise? Of all the actors in DTK Michael Caine seemed to be a William Finley reincarnation. If Finley was a bigger name maybe BDP would have used him in DTK. BUT GUESS WHAT? Finley was in DTK........his voice was Bobby's voice!!

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Marj
Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:49 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
Yup, he was listed in the credits.

I don't know if I could rate it, Bets. It's up there but suffers due to the atrocious acting of Nancy Allen and Keith Allen. Still it is wonderfully goofy and that first shower scene was terribly sexy. I just find the whole movie a lot of fun. And that deserves props in my book.

My favorite BDP is still Femme Fatale. Talk about sexy. And though it took me three viewings, all of the plot points fit. And what style!!
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