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| Marj |
 Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 11:08 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 10497
Location: Manhattan
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| Please don't be, Kate. I just hope everything turns out alright. |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 11:13 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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| but marj, De Palma clearly deals with race in SISTERS. He has an interracial sex scene (keep in mind this is 1973), the African Club with racist stereotypes of Black waiters in tuxedos and grass skirts (a throwback to the 30s), Gail Collier accuse the cops of not caring about the murder because the victim is a Black man....so, race is an issue in SISTERS. Perhaps De Palma is just reflecting the politics of the early 70s. Or perhaps he is making a statement about people who are different, whether its the color of their skin or a result of a weird gene. Prejudice. Or he might just be satirizing the era of letting "your freak flag fly". |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 11:14 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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| Gee thanks Kate. Letting some little family emergency ruin our forum. You're so selfish! |
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| Befade |
| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 12:07 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 3784
Location: AZ
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Yanni?
I drove a VW bug and remember driving in the snow with my baby son in Rhode Island and doing loops down a hill. VW's were NOT good in the snow and they had no heat.......How did you get up a mountain in one?
I guess I didn't have your freak, scared reactions.....Marc and Marj. The first time I saw it......don't know when......my memory of it was "It was in Canada with Margot Kidder who lived in a brick apartment building on a slanted street and something awful happened with a siamese twin." I don't have a good memory for films.
This time I was surprised at how many humorous notes there were...and the funky 70's quality the film had (reminded me of Boogey Nights) with the black guy, his afro, his long collared shirt........and how strange that he took Danielle to a place called The African Room........Also was struck by Margot Kidder's beauty and how thick her eyebrows were (untamed in comparison to a blonde Hitchcock heroine).
Why don't freaks repel me? One of my favorite books is Freaks by Leslie Fiedler who is of the opinion that freaks should not be normalized.....that they have something (spiritual) to teach us. I agree. I'm reading a book right now called The Other Side of Desire by Daniel Bergner. One of the paraphilias he writes about is men who have desire only for women who are amputees.........
Marj.......I have to admit I am fascinated by twins and could ask you a million questions.......like How much are you like your twin? How much are you different? etc........
This movie most reminded me of Rear Window........but there's some Spellbound too with evil goings-on in an Asylum and the Salvador Dali dream sequence.
Other moves it reminded me of were twin movies: Dead Ringers with Jeremy Irons and Genevieve Bujold (one bad twin, one good). And Twin Falls, Idaho by the twins Mark and Michael Polish.......(siamese twins....one healthy and one sickly) |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 3:23 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Houston
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| I don't think the issue of interracial sex meant anything to De Palma. Like George Romero with Night of the Living Dead, I think he just cast the best actor who auditioned. Neither movie makes reference to the character's race. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 4:01 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Houston
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Marj wrote: I I think the biggest flaw in the movie is the Bernard Herrmann score. He was clearly too old to still be composing for film and though the score made me jump numerous times, it also got in the way of the plot. It simply had too much score and a lot of it reminded me of junky fright films.
I think De Palma was using Herrmann satirically. Though he continued to use him on Obsession (and would have used him for Carrie, had Herrmann not died), I think he wanted that "old radio thriller" sound. But one of the curious (and to me, interesting) things about Sisters is the blurred line between parody and serious horror. Clearly Jennifer Salt's character is there for camp value (as, in a very differnt way, is William Finely's Breton: probably his best performance for De Palma, ever), but Margot Kidder is not. It's a curious mixture. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 6:02 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: New York City
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I remember being scared to see Sisters when it opened. I have a visceral reaction to slasher movies. They keep me awake at night and haunt me.
In my top ten movies of all time I list Rear Window and Psycho, so the two major Hitchcock quotations in Sisters are both from two of my favorite films. In other words, it's a tough act to follow. And Sisters doesn't come up to the task very well for me.
There are things that are impressive. The opening shot has a sense of mystery about it that exemplifies De Palma at his best. The sight of this woman with dark glasses and the black man watching her draws us it immediately. I was hooked.
The scene where the cake is being frosted at the bakery has undeniable suspense. You know something terrible is going to happen if Phil doesn't get back to Danielle's apartment soon, and yet he insists on covering this cake with an endless series of words.
I love that the quiz show's producers give a black man the prize of dinner at the "African Room." Hilarious.
Margot Kidder's performance is excellent and worthy of being in a better film.
There are other aspects of the movie I find intriguing and intermittently gripping. (None of them involve Jennifer Salt's sloppy performance, btw.)
But that brings me to what I find amateurish about the film--and that's my main complaint about it, that in spite of the fact that De Palma has obvious skills and obvious talent, the movie reads like a student film, or worse, a home movie with ambitions.
The story has very little logic, for one thing. Presumably, Phil is interested in Danielle for one reason only. He wants to get into her pants. So after he does, why does he hang around? She does nothing in particular to make any sane person want to stay. She seems certifiable, and her story of the sister in the next room is clearly delusional.
That's one thing. Another: if Salt's character really saw Kidder stabbing her victim repeatedly, why does she wait until the guy is at the window getting blood over everything to call the police? Makes absolutely no sense at all.
The Charles Durning character is introduced in what appears an obvious homage to Martin Balsam's Arbogast from Psycho, but then the character is dropped like a hot potato after doing some Grace Kelly Rear Window moves. (Durning is so unpolished in the role that one would never guess at the excellence of his later career.)
I realize now why I was scared to see it. The reputation had been that the gore and violence was so intense that the movie would give you nightmares. Well, the one image of Kidder lashing out with the knife is pretty horrific, but the blood and gore that ensues is so patently fake that I was not scared or horrified. I could appreciate once again how brilliant Hitchcock was to shoot Psycho in black and white, however.
Sorry for being what De Palma apologists might call "literal-minded," but compare it with Psycho. Compare it with Rear Window. Both of those movies deal with highly unusual circumstances, but do it with immaculate internal logic. Once the story is set in motion none of the characters do any single thing that is out of character or out of sync with the way real people would react in a similar situation. There is just so much--so much--in Sisters that defies logic or rationality that it loses its power to shock or horrify. It just seems silly. By the time Salt willingly enters the "experimental madhouse" she just seems like Nancy Drew on crack. (To flash forward in our forum, it's like Nancy Allen in Blow Out, who deserves to die because she and her cohorts act so incredibly stupid.)
The grainy look of the film is a mixed blessing. It seems gritty, which lends the movie an indie cred. But this sort of movie should look glossier in order to work. Again, compare Hitchcock, who had a huge budget but used every penny.
I'm prepared to discuss further. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 7:18 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Houston
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I think the movie is flawed myself, more a work of promise than of fulfilment (Kael said it had zero atmosphere, and other than that scene where Kidder and Lisle Wilson cross over on the fairy after the game show, she's right). That said, you're really taking the whole thing to seriously. No movie with a demented character like Finley's Breton is meant to be taken straight.
Poor Margot Kidder. She was destined always to be better than the movies she was cast in. That said, this movie shows her off to better advantage than most. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 7:51 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: New York City
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Joe Vitus wrote: Kidder and Lisle Wilson cross over on the fairy...
Didn't know they were bisexual.
Oh, er, you mean "ferry." Right?
Yeah, that's another good thing about the movie. Setting it in Staten Island has that sense of dislocation that gives a kind of unease to the story.
Another thing worthy of note for me was that my buddy Wendell ("Windy") Craig, one of the prime voices of CBS News, is heard on the radio right after the murder, saying "Hi. this is Windy Craig and it's a lovely day here in New York City." I freaked out.
(Craig and De Palma had some history with each other, and Craig was in some of his other early films.) |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 10:53 am |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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| Going to meet Earl to give him a copy of SISTERS. Will check back later with comments. |
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| Marj |
| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 12:17 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: Manhattan
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Joe Vitus wrote: Marj wrote: I I think the biggest flaw in the movie is the Bernard Herrmann score. He was clearly too old to still be composing for film and though the score made me jump numerous times, it also got in the way of the plot. It simply had too much score and a lot of it reminded me of junky fright films.
I think De Palma was using Herrmann satirically. Though he continued to use him on Obsession (and would have used him for Carrie, had Herrmann not died), I think he wanted that "old radio thriller" sound. But one of the curious (and to me, interesting) things about Sisters is the blurred line between parody and serious horror. Clearly Jennifer Salt's character is there for camp value (as, in a very different way, is William Finely's Breton: probably his best performance for De Palma, ever), but Margot Kidder is not. It's a curious mixture.
I have to disagree, Joe, but not based on your theory. It's a good one. I'm disagreeing based on an interview I read. DePalma really wanted Herrmann. He wanted a score like Marnie's or Psycho's scores and wanted terribly to work with this genius. Now whether or not he wanted that "old radio thriller" sound or not, that's precisely what he got.
Same goes for Jennifer Salt. She was his Jimmy Stewart or Vera Miles. She just wasn't up to the task. |
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| Befade |
| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 12:53 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: AZ
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Quote: But one of the curious (and to me, interesting) things about Sisters is the blurred line between parody and serious horror.
I agree with Joe..........As I said.....what struck me about the movie on this viewing was the notes of unexpected humor everywhere. Or maybe.....better put.....the combination of viewpoints that did not align with horror.
The peeping Tom show......crude and scary in light of today's awareness of stalking danger.
The African Room.....bizarre to think it even existed with racial awareness what it was.
Cake decorating.....that the guy would insist on putting both names on the cake when he only overheard a crazy sister and didn't meet her.....and didn't care how crude the lettering was.
The large circular scar on the doctor/husband's forehead went unexplained and did not appear in all scenes.
I think we may not completely understand De Palma in this. First.....he was a physics major......that's got to mean a different way of viewing film (I think......I'll ask my son who does the physics for computer games).....and who says he wanted to copy Hitchcock? (Gus Van Zant did) Maybe he just liked some of Hitch's elements and wanted to ad them to his mix........ |
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| Marj |
| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 1:04 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: Manhattan
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The review that I agree with the most is Billy's. Sisters does have a student film feel about it. I agree with some of your points and disagree with others. But all in all, I think you nailed it.
Keep in mind that DePalma was still a very young filmmaker. He was working on a very low budget. And he would have like to have gotten better actors. But he knew precisely how he wanted each scene to look. He never said whether he storyboarded or not. But the effect was there.
I'm so glad you mentioned the quiz show prize to the African Room. The actor who played Phil actually had a good moment when he realized the irony in that. And Marc, I agree with Joe. I don't think color really entered into DePalma's thinking. Other than he wanted the African Room to be a point of irony.
But you say Phil is presumably interested in Danielle for only one reason. I didn't think so. I think he was really taken by her even to the point of being slightly disappointed that she is not from France, rather from Canada. Not nearly as exotic. And so he hears an argument with her sister. That wouldn't scare most men off. And that you can take to the bank! HA!
The other point you made that I disagreed with was the suspenseful scene at the bakery. I missed that completely. But maybe that was my mistake. I took it as a moment to relax before the murder. It should have been exactly what you said. It didn't work for me. And Grace didn't see the murder. The first she knew that something was wrong was when she saw the bloody hand at the window.
But you really nailed the student feel, Billy. I thought much of it looked like a TV movie but he says he used 35mm film. (16mm for the documentary) Maybe it was the film stock. I don't know enough about film stock to know. But what really hit me was the sound. It had a hollow quality and was really bad.
Keep in mind what I said in my first post on this film. My response was unique and very much based on the freak aspect of being a twin. That's the lens I saw this film through. And I only have one. |
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| Marj |
| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 1:12 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: Manhattan
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Betsy--I think Phil's adding both names to the cake was a way to ingratiate himself with Danielle. Men do that with twins. That was actually smart!
And DePalma said he was trying to learn from Hitchcock. He didn't want to rip him off but he clearly said that he was using some of Hitch's best ideas. |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 3:03 pm |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 9008
Location: Shanghai
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I gave Sisters a watch despite not being much interested in horror films, and always considering DePalma something of a well-meaning hack.
I was mostly underwhelmed by the film. It really isn't scary and the blood and scars are very fake looking. The split screen work was the most interesting aspect, and worked fairly well. In the interview on the Dvd, DePalma says that he basically took the idea from the Woodstock documentary.
I understood that the cake decorating was supposed to build up tension, but it didn't do it for me. Partly because we have no idea what problem Danielle has. Also, the idea that she took 2 pills, but almost immediately needed two more seemed quite silly. Why not just take the four pills needed? Or I'd probably have her about to take her last two pills, get distracted and then they get knocked down the drain, so that she took no pills. A quibble, but it meant that the bakery scene didn't work for me as intended.
The film also relied a little too much on things happening slowly on one end, so that some transformation could happen before we get to another locale (ie. the bakery, the police dawdling). And of course there is no way that anyone could clean up blood in such a short time, especially from a window, wall and floor. I thought panning down to the blood stain on the couch was kind of cheesy. I'd have preferred a pullback to a medium shot where it becomes visible in part of the frame, instead of focusing directly on it by going up and down.
There was also a little sloppiness, as when Danielle says to the reporter that living alone can make you scared and let your imagination run away with you. But since they don't know each other, there should be no way she knew that the reporter lived alone.
The African Room was interesting. Lisle looks at the gift card and realizes the irony. But then it turns out to be a soul food restaurant with a Herbie Hancock style hip band and a mostly/all black clientele. So appearances can be deceiving -- blacks are in on this joke, and the gift turns out to be fine (and not embarrassing).
Later in the film, race becomes a red herring, when the reporter surmises that the police are not investigating a murder because the victim is black. But really race is not an issue, though the film plays on early 70's (and today's?) audience expectations that it will be.
I thought Charles Durning was really good. He was earnestly goofy, and made me laugh when he said that he graduated from the Brooklyn School of Detective Investigation.
- I found Margot Kidder's performance to be very uneven. Her awful French-Canuck accent and imperfect English only working well in one scene with the detectives and the search warrant.
- What was everyone's problem with Jennifer Salt? I liked her short Karen Black look and her toughness. The scenes with her and her mom were about the only thing I found believable in the whole film.
Lastly there was one ugly shot of Manhattan from the SI ferry, when the reporter crosses over. Could have used a retake there.
And the Hermann score was distracting. |
Last edited by gromit on Sat May 09, 2009 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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