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marantzo |
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:27 pm |
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Ghulam wrote: Rev.Wright cannot be swept under the rug. Obama cannot disown him after a 20 year parishionership. His best tactic would be to show the minister to be within the broad specrum of American Sunday sermonizers, although less obnoxious than Rev. Pat Robertson or Rev. John Hagee.
I have felt all along that, even though Obama is a better campaigner, he is less electable than Hillary. Wright gives people a "rationale" for voting against Obama, when in fact they were going to vote against him anyway.
I don't agree. He most definitely could have disowned him. He could have said that he was his spiritual advisor, he can't hide that, but he doesn't agree with some of the inflammatory things he has expressed and he (Obama) is mature enough and has enough experience in life and his religion to decide for himself what is right and what is wrong, spiritually and as a representative of the American people. He had to say something like this in that speech he gave because it is too late to be convincing now. It may turn out that this whole thing may not hurt him as much as I think it will. But that seems like a long shot to me.
How America can be so tied up with these religious things which should be a personal thing and not something that should compete with the economy, the rights of the people, the right to affordable health care, and the security of the country among other things, is plain stupid. For a country that has the separation of church and state in the constitution, it is the closest thing to a theocracy of any advanced democracy. A case of national multiple personality disorder. |
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carrobin |
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:46 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: NYC
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Well, considering the upheavals of civilization through the centuries that have been the result of religion--whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or even anti-religion (like China vs. Tibet)--I don't think America really stands out that much. Of course it's ridiculous, and I think it's another of those things that the media enjoys because it rouses passions and sells papers, but it's something that always has to be taken into account by politicians.
Which somehow reminds me of a cartoon in the new New Yorker, in which a gentleman at a party is critically asking a medal-festooned military officer, "Where's your flag pin?" In a way, politics IS religion, sometimes. |
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shannon |
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:55 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 1628
Location: NC
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Quote: He could have said that he was his spiritual advisor, he can't hide that, but he doesn't agree with some of the inflammatory things he has expressed and he (Obama) is mature enough and has enough experience in life and his religion to decide for himself what is right and what is wrong, spiritually and as a representative of the American people.
This is exactly what Obama's response was. |
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Befade |
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:01 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 3784
Location: AZ
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Quote: Plenty of blacks, old, and poor people have no gvt ID. I guess we'll be seeing the numbers soon.
The thing is.......you can't REGISTER to vote in AZ without a photo id. Unless you mail in a copy of your birth certificate with your registration form. Showing your id at the polls was legislated here to stop illegals from voting. Well......if they hadn't registered they wouldn't be on the list at the polling place. They'd have to fill out a provisional ballot.......and when that was checked the evidence about their eligibility would surface. |
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marantzo |
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:11 pm |
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carrobin wrote: Well, considering the upheavals of civilization through the centuries that have been the result of religion--whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or even anti-religion (like China vs. Tibet)--I don't think America really stands out that much. Of course it's ridiculous, and I think it's another of those things that the media enjoys because it rouses passions and sells papers, but it's something that always has to be taken into account by politicians.
Which somehow reminds me of a cartoon in the new New Yorker, in which a gentleman at a party is critically asking a medal-festooned military officer, "Where's your flag pin?" In a way, politics IS religion, sometimes.
I was putting it in the category of advanced democracies and I think that it definitely stands out. Quote: ...but it's something that always has to be taken into account by politicians. This alone makes it stand out. And where in any other western democracy is abortion and Gay rights a contentious issue? I can't think of any other country in this category where religious figures are a strong influence on the government. The Pat Robertson's are the Ian Paisley's of America. Before Kennedy a Catholic couldn't get elected president. |
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marantzo |
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:12 pm |
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shannon wrote: Quote: He could have said that he was his spiritual advisor, he can't hide that, but he doesn't agree with some of the inflammatory things he has expressed and he (Obama) is mature enough and has enough experience in life and his religion to decide for himself what is right and what is wrong, spiritually and as a representative of the American people.
This is exactly what Obama's response was.
When was this? |
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Ghulam |
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:20 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 4742
Location: Upstate NY
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Gary said, "He could have said that he was his spiritual advisor, he can't hide that, but he doesn't agree with some of the inflammatory things he has expressed."
I have no disagreement with that. But those inflammatory statements have also to be characterized as being within the range of the broad spectrum of American Sunday sermonizing. Demonizing Wright would be neither honest nor politically beneficial. |
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Joe Vitus |
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:41 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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Oddly, Hillary never mentions that Rev. Wright was one of the people flown in to serve as a spiritual councillor when Bill's affair with Monica came to light. Funny that. |
_________________ You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.
-Topher |
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mo_flixx |
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:47 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
Posts: 12533
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CNN Int'l. seems to be hung up on 2 stories at the moment. THE Black Church (quote fm. CNN) and the Austrian creep who imprisoned and raped his daughter. |
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whiskeypriest |
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:20 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 6916
Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
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Personally I am hung up on the Congolese penis thieves. |
_________________ I ask you, Velvel, as a rational man, which of us is possessed? |
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Marj |
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:25 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: Manhattan
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billyweeds |
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:35 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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The press conference, although a necessity, was obviously a painful experience for Obama. The pain in Obama's face was palpable and (yes, I'm about to use the "L" word) lovable. Every "um" and "er" that came out of his mouth made me appreciate him all the more. All of Hillary's well-calibrated, well-rehearsed rhetoric cannot hold a candle to the glorious sound of Barack's sometimes stumbling spontaneity. |
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Joe Vitus |
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:38 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Houston
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Thanks, Marj. I mentioned earlier that I felt Obama was in a trap either way. What I saw of Wright's speech didn't strike me as hateful (I still haven't gotten the chance to watch the whole thing). So I'm disappointed that Obama has felt the need to issue such a severe response.
I think this is going to be a problem now. A lot of Obama's supporters have already said they see nothing wrong with Wright. So what are they going to think now about Obama's statement? |
_________________ You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.
-Topher |
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Joe Vitus |
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:41 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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Billy, come on. Either Obama is overreacting, or he's playing the kind of politics you and I have loved him for rejecting. Why was the conference a "necessity" if Wright's an okay guy? If it pained Obama to do this, why do it? A strike against Obama, in my book. |
_________________ You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.
-Topher |
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bocce |
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:42 pm |
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Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 2428
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ron paul looks more attractive as a protest vote the more this bullshit continues... |
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