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yambu
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:39 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 23 May 2004 Posts: 6441 Location: SF Bay Area
I'm not saying they made bad law, but for Obama, the timing could not have been worse. We'll see.
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Syd
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:47 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 12887 Location: Norman, Oklahoma
Joe Vitus wrote:
I can understand why, depending on where you live, you would not have a driver's liscence. But I'm more perplexed by the lack of a Social Security card. You can't get a job without it, and you often have to write the number down when you apply. It's a little hard for me to believe that a large number of blacks in Indiana don't have one. I support the legislature legislature in this case. Prevention of voter fraud is important, and how can you do this unless proof is offered?


My Social Security Card doesn't have a photograph on it. The Indiana law requires a photo ID.

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billyweeds
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:00 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20618 Location: New York City
Joe Vitus wrote:
Melody wrote:
Joan Walsh, an Obama supporter, writes in Salon about Why Jeremiah Wright is so wrong:

My goal in this post is to try not to treat Wright the way Wright seems to treat the idea of America; to not utterly damn Wright because some of (a lot of? I'm not sure) what Wright has said is disturbing and wrong. I am grateful to Bill Moyers for airing so much of the sermons. I enjoyed their thoughtful conversation about theology and politics. But the whole idea that Wright has been attacked over "soundbites," and if Americans saw his entire sermons, in context, they'd feel differently, now seems ludicrous. The long clips Moyers played only confirm what was broadcast in the snippets (and the longer excerpts out today are even more troubling).


PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Joan Walsh is HUGE Clinton supporter. Read her blogs. Read the posts in the letters column from Obama supporters. This woman lives, breathes, and dies for Hillary, and systemattically attacks Obama (passive agressively) while championing Hillary's every victory. I read Salon daily. This woman is not a unbiased commentator.


I mentioned this over in the other forum. Hopefully Melody has gotten the word by now. Walsh is more insidious than most commentators because of her Salon affililation and because of the passive aggression you allude to.
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Joe Vitus
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:05 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
I don't usually get emotional about these things, but Walsh makes my blood boil. She's trashed Salon's reputation. If she actually came out and endorsed Hillary, I'd be okay with it, but her deception is another matter entirely. She claims balance, but if you only read Salon you'd never even know about the Bosnia story, or any other Clinton fumbling. While anything that happens to Obama gets dragged on for weeks, if not indefinately. The site has become a bizarro O'Reilly Factor.

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Joe Vitus
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:10 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
Syd wrote:
Joe Vitus wrote:
I can understand why, depending on where you live, you would not have a driver's liscence. But I'm more perplexed by the lack of a Social Security card. You can't get a job without it, and you often have to write the number down when you apply. It's a little hard for me to believe that a large number of blacks in Indiana don't have one. I support the legislature legislature in this case. Prevention of voter fraud is important, and how can you do this unless proof is offered?


My Social Security Card doesn't have a photograph on it. The Indiana law requires a photo ID.


I missed the part about "photo ID." I see the problem. Not sure what I think. I understand the issue of voter fraud, but the photo ID is more problematic.

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Syd
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:41 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 12887 Location: Norman, Oklahoma
I don't have a problem with some sort of picture ID if it can be obtained for free and is easy to get. If there's a charge for it, I'd think it would be a violation of the 24th Amendment, since it would be a charge for voting in federal elections.

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whiskeypriest
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:54 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 6916 Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
bocce wrote:
just out of wild curiousity, why would anyone over 18 years old not have an ID of some type???

i don't see this as any government conspiracy to deny the vote but, rather, to ensure it's valid...

actually, where i live, in the racist and reactionary south, a voter registration card is normally required to exercise the franchise...
People who do not drive. Of whom which there are legions, most of whom are registered voters.

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Joe Vitus
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:46 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
Syd wrote:
I don't have a problem with some sort of picture ID if it can be obtained for free and is easy to get. If there's a charge for it, I'd think it would be a violation of the 24th Amendment, since it would be a charge for voting in federal elections.


My questions are 1) how long ago was this ruling made, and 2) how long does it take to recieve it. I think a driver's liscense takes 3-4 four weeks to arrive in the mail.

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Nancy
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:53 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 4607 Location: Norman, OK
Joe Vitus wrote:
Syd wrote:
I don't have a problem with some sort of picture ID if it can be obtained for free and is easy to get. If there's a charge for it, I'd think it would be a violation of the 24th Amendment, since it would be a charge for voting in federal elections.


My questions are 1) how long ago was this ruling made, and 2) how long does it take to recieve it. I think a driver's liscense takes 3-4 four weeks to arrive in the mail.


To some extent, the ID requirement is a recent development. When I was working elections, we didn't even have to see their voter's registration card unless they were not on the list of registered voters -- usually because they hadn't voted in a while. We never asked for a photo ID, but I think that has been creeping in for the last couple of years in certain areas. It's certainly not directed against a particular candidate -- I think it's more of an outgrowth of the whole homeland security thing. And a silly one, in my opinion.

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Melody
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:56 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 2242 Location: TX
I don't know much about Joan Walsh; I read her occasionally. She may very well be a Clinton supporter, but these words convinced me she's an Obama supporter, too.

I know y'all find the idea unfathomable that someone can root for BOTH Democratic candidates, but I'm here to tell you I'm one. She may be one, too.

Since y'all obviously didn't read the article I posted, here's another excerpt. Tell me what you think about her sympathies.


But Obama isn't running for president as a Hyde Park liberal. He's running as a centrist who can unite the country better than Hillary Clinton. The new Wright tapes emerged on the very day Obama went to Fox News to make that case, telling Chris Wallace "I think there are a whole host of areas where Republicans in some cases may have a better idea," and boasting about supporting tort reform legislation opposed by trial lawyers. The core of Obama's case to Democrats has been that he's more electable than Clinton because he's going to bring in independents and Republicans -- remember "Obamacans"? Let's hope they didn't watch Moyers Friday night.

I found myself feeling a little sorry for Wright Friday night, but even more sorry for Obama. The most sympathetic explanations of Obama's decision to choose Wright's church argued that the fatherless young man who was raised by white people and bereft of black role models chose Wright to fill both holes. Even though he disagreed with Wright's extreme critique of American society, this explanation held, he was comforted by his spiritual and personal mentoring. Maybe so. But if that's true, clearly Obama's been let down by Wright, who couldn't suppress his own hurt and anger at his treatment by the "corporate media" long enough to think about the presidential hopes of his renowned spiritual mentee, Obama. And so he pops up during Obama's worst week yet on the campaign trail, in the wake of his sobering loss to Clinton in Pennsylvania. I can't help wondering: Maybe Wright needs Obama to fail to justify his pessimistic view of American promise. The whole thing is very sad.

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Melody
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:11 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 2242 Location: TX
Here's the latest Joan Walsh entry on her chagrin, upon further reflection, of having given Rev. Wright the benefit of the doubt.

The latest front-page article features this:


What should Obama do about Rev. Jeremiah Wright?

With the pastor's latest invective clouding Obama's campaign, Salon turns to a panel of political and cultural experts for answers.


Various folks weigh in, including Andrew Sullivan, who I've grown to like the more I've seen him on Bill Maher.

I don't really see a pro-Clinton bias in these three articles I've posted, but I'm sure one of you will set me straight.

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Nancy
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:23 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 4607 Location: Norman, OK
Melody wrote:
I don't really see a pro-Clinton bias in these three articles I've posted, but I'm sure one of you will set me straight.


I don't see it either, Melody.

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yambu
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:40 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 23 May 2004 Posts: 6441 Location: SF Bay Area
A good NYT piece re the Rev. Wright:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/29/opinion/29herbert.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
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Joe Vitus
Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:49 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
The trouble is you're reading selectively. I read her continuously. She refuses to acknowledge any of Hillary's weaknesses or mistakes, and she hammers Obama over and over again. She's never let go of his assoication with Wright since it first came up, and she's always going on about his sense of entitlement and his elitism. She never, never criticises Hillary, almost never acknowledges her mistakes or failures. She ignored the Bosnia story when it happened. In fact, no Salon reporter did a story on it, and the information was never treated on the front page. While Obama is raked over the coals on the front page regularly by various columnists, including herself. Sometiems two or three at a time.

She waited for something else about Obama to come to the fore before, in a piece about something else she thinks he did wrong, she addressed Bosnia in passing (still not giving it front page reference) and said that Hillary didn't actually lie. That she simply, when confronted with the video evidence, and this is a quote "remembered that she misrememebered."

She also frequently attacks rabid Obama supporters while ignoring Hillary supporters of a similar stripe and, when called on this repeatedly in the letters column, finally admitted she was harsher on Obama supporters but that being harder on them and on their candidate was necessary because the media gives him a free ride and is so harsh on Clinton.

Hillary photos regularly show her smiling, against a brightly colored backdrop. Obama is generally show to disadvantage in somber colors. Her wins are triumphed. His are at best noted, while still hammering on the fact that he hasn't made it, yet.

Walsh is totally partisan.

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Befade
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 12:05 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 3784 Location: AZ
ENOUGH!! I've seen Rev. Wright's 3 tv appearances and now he's going to be on Nightline? At first I was curious......I think my curiousity has been satisfied. Now I want to see just Obama on tv. Please.......give me more Barack and less Jeremiah. Mad

My conclusion about him, by the way.......is that he's a very substantial minister......smart and informed......but he is also a major showman....(his imitiations of the speech of JFK and Lyndon Johnson are evidence). His style and Barack's are radically different.
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