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Haiku
Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 1:26 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 123
Marilyn,
I began this response with a blanket statement that I did not think that Angel and Buffy had that message. However, as I thought about it, I disagreed with myself and saw a distinction. I think in Buffy anyone can be a hero. But, in Angel, anyone can be a hero too, but only if one chooses and even if one goes the wrong way one can come back to the right path. The distinction is slight, but I think Angel took into account the personal failures of its characters more than Buffy.
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Marilyn
Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 1:33 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 8210 Location: Skokie (not a bad movie, btw)
Haiku - I really don't know if I agree with that. Remember that Willow had choices to make. So did Anya. Free choice was Buffy's final weapon against the people who wanted to make her less human by increasing her power.
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Haiku
Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 2:00 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 123
Marilyn,
good point about Willow and Anya. However, I don't think that Buffy's final weapon was about free choice - I think it was about breaking the rules to empower the previously disempowered. Presumably, the choice would come after.

Not artfully expressed or fully thought out. Admittedly.
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ehle64
Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 3:05 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 7149 Location: NYC; US&A
For what it's worth, I'm with billyweeds as far as not seeing any subjects next to the timelines. Wonder why melody gets to see them? She's like that creepy kid in 6th Sense, she sees subject lines. . .
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Melody
Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 10:23 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 2242 Location: TX
Ehle,

Can you see my "Post subject" line on this post?

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My heart told my head: This time, no.
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ehle64
Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 10:30 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 7149 Location: NYC; US&A
Nope Shocked
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Joe Vitus
Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 10:40 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
Marilyn,

Angel didn't sign away his humanity because it "didn't matter anymore." It was the big sacrifice. It meant so much to him, maybe everything. He gave it up to save the world. I thought it was amazing.

Sioux,

I found the scene at the shelter very moving, too.[/b]
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Melody
Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 10:42 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 2242 Location: TX
Okay. Type something in your subject box and post it. I'll read it to you if I can.

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My heart told my head: This time, no.
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Kate
Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 10:52 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 1397 Location: Pacific Northwest
Test for subject line. Tell me what you see.
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Kate
Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 11:00 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 1397 Location: Pacific Northwest
That was for Melody or anyone else that can see subject lines.
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Melody
Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 11:25 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 2242 Location: TX
Kate,

This is what I see:


Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 10:52 pm Post subject: MELODY

You can't see the "Post subject" part?

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My heart told my head: This time, no.
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Kate
Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 11:30 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 1397 Location: Pacific Northwest
No, I can't. This is what I see: Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 9:25 pm
[/b]
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Kate
Posted: Fri May 21, 2004 11:40 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 1397 Location: Pacific Northwest
And you are right about my subject line, you do see.....you must have the power! I relinquish all my wordly goods to you....well maybe not all.

Night all.
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pedersencr
Posted: Sat May 22, 2004 6:44 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 921 Location: New Orleans
I see the Angel/Buffy discussion is still on, so here are my own reactions to both shows, especially the endings.
I enjoyed every Buffy episode I ever saw (and some twice or more), I would guess because she was such a "let's go do it" kind of gal, even to the point of self-sacrifice. Angel I never warmed up to, I'm pretty sure because he was too broody and the action so much slower than Buffy. And it turns out that, in their endings, my preferences are in that order also.
If I recollect correctly, Buffy's message was "Every girl (/person) can be a Slayer," while Angel's was "The fight goes on."
So I would say Buffy's message was part of the solution, while Angel's was part of the damn problem. Unfortunately the fight does go on, every day, while I personally prefer a solution-oriented outlook.
Charles
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billyweeds
Posted: Sat May 22, 2004 7:38 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20618 Location: New York City
Just received my early-delivery of the Sunday Times and guess what??? Kate Aurthur, who those of us in the know are aware is "Kate," the former forum moderator, has written an excellent and quite outspoken review of this season's "American Idol" travesties. It's a big feature with pictures and stuff, and I just wanted to give props to Kate. So you lose a few (and we know what was lost) but you win a few (with luck Kate will write more and more for the Times). The article is must reading for "Idol" addicts and for Kate watchers alike. (I'm a double winner in those categories.)
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