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marantzo

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:22 am

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McBain wrote:

Why would he interview people who clearly hate America?

I'm not sure about Nader, but that describes Chomsky. I find it hard to sympathise with Nader after his insistence on running, when it was a given that it would take votes away from the Democrats and help Bush claim the White House. Thank you Ralph.

Joe Vitus

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:39 am

Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston

That was a sarcastic comment, wasn't it? I didn't think McBain really considers either to hate America. Did I miss something?

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bart

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:11 am

Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 2381 Location: Lincoln NE

Marantz, people are free to vote however they want to. All kinds of weirdos run for office, but I'm not going to blame them personally every time a Republican wins.

As for "hating America," I don't understand that at all. Chomsky is a left-winger. That means he disagrees with the policies of many of our elected representatives. That kind of vocal disagreement is part of being an American. I don't think it means you hate America. When I think of "hating" America, I think more of guys like John Malkovich who make a big deal of moving to France and talking about how much nicer it is to be in France and not icky old America.

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mo_flixx

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:24 am

Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533

bart wrote:

I thought Malkovich didn't live in France anymore - (I know it's a little off the subject, but I was curious).
Bet the French get a real hoot out of hearing Malkovich speak French, btw.

bart

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:37 am

Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 2381 Location: Lincoln NE

I heard him speak French in that Ripley movie he was in. It was pretty passable French. If he moved back, more power to him, maybe his feelings softened towards his native land. Maybe he missed Chicago-style hot dogs. (he's from the Chicago area, IIRC)

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jeremy

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:52 am

Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 6794 Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)

I have moved through a few exiled or expatriate communities. I find most rather sad; cut off from their wellspring they stagnate.

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Ghulam

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:15 pm

Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 4742 Location: Upstate NY

McBain wrote:

Why would he interview people who clearly hate America?

Chomsky was the guest speaker in April at, of all places, the US Military Academy at West Point, NY. In a recent Prospect/Foreign Policy poll asking 2000 people to rate 100 "Global Public Intellectuals", Chomsky was first with 4827 votes. The second was Umberto Eco, way behind with 2464 votes, followed by Richard Dawkins, Vaclav Havel and Christopher Hitchens, whom I can't stand.

Ghulam

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:35 pm

Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 4742 Location: Upstate NY

Mo said, "Radio Pacifica's Amy Goodman of DEMOCRACY NOW interviews Chomsky all the time'

Amy Goodman's interview of Arundhati Roy has created quite a furor in India. Indians think Ms Roy hates India.

Joe Vitus

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:50 pm

Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston

Does even being an ex-patriot mean you hate America? Did Hemingway hate America?

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You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.

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carrobin

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 4:53 pm

Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 7795 Location: NYC

Funny how criticism of the government is so often interpreted as "hating America," when it just means one hates Bush & Cheney--and it's obvious (to me) that Bush & Cheney are the ones who hate America, or at least its Constitution. If anyone had given me an opportunity in 2004, I'd have moved to Canada in a New York minute.

Re TV: I'd advise against too much "24" at one sitting, if only because of the danger of rising blood pressure and stress.

Joe Vitus

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:02 pm

Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston

Ah yes, because no one ever criticized the government before Bush got into office.

I can't think of a more outspoken critic of America than Gore Vidal, and I wouldn't even consider him to "hate America." The very notion that criticism or living outside the country (and Vidal did both both) equal hating America is ridiculous.

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You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.

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carrobin

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:22 pm

Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 7795 Location: NYC

I don't remember anyone being accused of "hating America" when they criticized Clinton (and boy, did they criticize Clinton!).

Joe Vitus

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:33 pm

Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston

You're memory's too short term. Vidal was always accused of hating America. Many of the celebrities who claimed they'd move to France if Clinton (or Gore) were not elected were indeed accused of not being true Americans.

Henry James, way back at the start of the century, was considered un-American for residing in Europe (though he was not a political man, to my knowledge).

And you might be familiar with a thing called the House Un-American Activities Committee, in which people who criticized America, especially those registered with the Communist party at any point in their lives, were branded un-American.

If you think this hyper-sensitivity to criticism is a new invention of either the Bush Administration or contemporary conservativism, you're sorely mistaken.

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You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.

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Joe Vitus

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:39 pm

Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston

The sad fact is that Americans throughout the history of this country have been unbelievably touchy about criticism, and it's been a rare time in our history where critics have not been branded un-American.

No better example exists than the way the hippies and war protestors of the 60's were often branded un-American. Remember the fights Archie Bunker and Mike would have on All in the Family?

"American love it or leave it" is not a slogan invented by Dick Cheney.

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You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.

-Topher

carrobin

Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:50 pm

Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 7795 Location: NYC

I think there's a difference between being called un-American and being told you "hate America." I do recall that the sixties were rife with people calling other people un-American, and I even recall the Red scare of the fifties--mostly because my mother pointed at the TV set and told me the McCarthy hearings would be history and I should pay attention. But a president and his minions declaring that their critics "hate America," with the connotation that liberals are in league with terrorists, seems to be something only the Bush administration has done.

As for Gore Vidal, I've always found him intelligent and entertaining--one of these days I might even read one of his books.

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