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ehle64
Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:31 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 7149 Location: NYC; US&A
I will never, nor could I ever, be the one to deny the amazing penetration Fight Club placed into my brain. It has been an essential force in my fear of acting on film. I left two different theaters after two different screenings of two different Fincher films and I felt the same thing with passion -- I've got to try.

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jeremy
Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:44 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 6794 Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
I don't want to turn this into a Fight Club forum and I'm sure ehle would spank me and send me packing if I tried, but like Marc, I too would like to stand up for Fight Club, which, for all it's prentensions and nasty implications, at least had the testosterone powered balls to stand and say something. And it did it in a visceral and hugely entertaining way. It may also turn out to be the highlight of Brad Pitt's career. Zodiac may represent a change and a muturing, but it does not mean that Fincher's preceeding work was ill-formed or adolescent or whatever.


Last edited by jeremy on Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:55 am; edited 1 time in total

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Marc
Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:49 am Reply with quote
Joined: 19 May 2004 Posts: 8423
Quote:
for all it's prentensions and nasty implications,


jeremy, as a fellow punkrocker, you gotta appreciate pretense and nasty implications in art. I maintain that the most important art is the art that confuses, upsets and pisses off its audience.
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jeremy
Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:54 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 6794 Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
Totally, if nothing else, Fight Club succeeded in generating a reaction, provoking a discourse and blowing a few things up.

_________________
I am angry, I am ill, and I'm as ugly as sin.
My irritability keeps me alive and kicking.
I know the meaning of life, it doesn't help me a bit.
I know beauty and I know a good thing when I see it.
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billyweeds
Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:53 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20425 Location: New York City
Marc wrote:
FIGHT CLUB is the best American movie of the nineties. The notion that Fincher
has only recently achieved greatness with ZODIAC is bullshit.


I completely disagree. Fight Club was a fanboy phenomenon. (Though I must admit my wife--the farthest thing from a fanboy I can conceive of--calls it one of her favorite movies of all time. I merely sort of liked it.)

But Zodiac is the real deal.
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gromit
Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:59 am Reply with quote
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 8619 Location: Shanghai
billyweeds wrote:

I completely disagree. Fight Club was a fanboy phenomenon. (Though I must admit my wife--the farthest thing from a fanboy I can conceive of--calls it one of her favorite movies of all time. I merely sort of liked it.)
But Zodiac is the real deal.

Besides being admittedly contradictory, can you explain what you mean by calling it a fanboy phenomenon. I would imagine that Fight Club skews heavily to the male demographic (but maybe that assumption isn't true), and was hugely popular, but I don't see any of that as a negative. Fight Club was well-written, well-paced, well-acted, creative, funny, raw, etc. I'd have to think a bit before I can come up with any negatives.

In fact, I'll be willing to sit through an over 2 1/2 hour serial killer/crime investigation film because of Fight Club. If Zodiac is half as good as Fight Club, it'll be worthwhile.

As for comparing Zodiac to All the Prez's Men, I found the latter film to be somewhat dry and dull. Hope Zodiac maintains a better pace. And obviously Zodiac is much less topical in 2007 than AtPM was at the time of its release. A film about the Unabomber, or the DC snipers, or, better yet, the still unsolved anthrax case might connect more. Especially as the Zodiac killer case seems somewhat quaint by now, when most every state has their own infamous serial killer, with even middle school and high school students getting into the act, while there's even been serial killer trading cards.

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ehle64
Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 11:16 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 7149 Location: NYC; US&A
Marc wrote:
jeremy, as a fellow punkrocker, you gotta appreciate pretense and nasty implications in art. I maintain that the most important art is the art that confuses, upsets and pisses off its audience.


coolest. quote. ever.

gromit -- go to Frisco in the 70s. It's beautiful and scary. Have a good ride.

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It truly disappoints me when people do something for you via no prompt of your own and then use it as some kind of weapon against you at a later time and place. It is what it is.
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gromit
Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:03 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 8619 Location: Shanghai
I think there should be a Zodiac Killer parlor game, where you try to see who in your group makes the best suspect.

Yambu has the family connections that might have given him access to or an interest in crime, cryptography, guns and police work. And suspiciously still lives in the Bay area.

While Marc enjoys nasty implications and transgressive behavior, is self-defined as "angry" and doesn't exactly cuddle up to authority.

Tire has a decidedly abnormal interest in puzzles, anagrams, and presumably cryptograms. Also, has an attraction to government, while enjoying tweaking authority. Whiskey has those same suspicious puzzle tendencies.

Billy and Joe are both probably well-versed in Gilbert & Sullivan. And don't forget the theatrical quality of the Zodiac Killer -- a costume once, a symbol, a look-at-me-ness.

Marantz (and myself) probably make the most spelling/typing mistakes. [But I believe the ZK mostly hand-wrote his notes]. Billy is the most exacting in spelling, but could intentionally misspell shit to throw the pigs off his scent. Marantz is also writing a crime/detective novel, showing a penchant for trying to outsmart readers.

Jeremy is an entirely suspicious character -- what with his many international connections and coming from Jack-the-Ripper-land -- even if I cannot link him to the case in any way.

I think the physical description is less interesting and would exclude the women here, even though there is probably no shortage of somewhat heavy males here.

[Hope nobody is offended that they too weren't libeled in this post]

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ehle64
Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:09 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 7149 Location: NYC; US&A
I'm actually glad I wasn't a part of that. But I applaud your effort. See the filM?

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Syd
Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:08 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 12541 Location: Norman, Oklahoma
Hey, I like codes, do cryptograms sometimes, and have a degree in mathematics, and as we all know, when mathematicians go bad they REALLY go bad. I fit right in with the usual suspects.

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gromit
Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:14 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 8619 Location: Shanghai
Syd wrote:
Hey, I like codes, do cryptograms sometimes, and have a degree in mathematics, and as we all know, when mathematicians go bad they REALLY go bad. I fit right in with the usual suspects.

I always figured you and Nancy as more like anthrax mailers.

But the desire for attention gets you on to the Zodiac suspect list.

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Ghulam
Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:21 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 4724 Location: Upstate NY
While I did not like Fight Club, I could sense that it was directed by no mean talent. But he shouldn't have touched that script.
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billyweeds
Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:26 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20425 Location: New York City
gromit--Feeling the way you do about Fight Club and All the President's Men ("dry" and "dull" are the last words I would apply to it), I will bet all the farms I own that you will not find Zodiac as good as Fight Club. However, you will be wrong. It's way better.
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Befade
Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:16 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 3641 Location: AZ
Quote:
obviously Zodiac is much less topical in 2007 than AtPM was at the time of its release. A film about the Unabomber, or the DC snipers, or, better yet, the still unsolved anthrax case might connect more. Especially as the Zodiac killer case seems somewhat quaint by now, when most every state has their own infamous serial killer, with even middle school and high school students getting into the act, while there's even been serial killer trading cards.


I'd agree.........as serial killers go, Zodiac is dated and somewhat bland. The film reallly is about the guys wrapped up in the case at the time......which is a whole different genre.

Since I am more curious about who done it than who investigated it

I'd be asking questions like.....What made him stop killing? Was he a true serial killer (sexual sadist)? What was his relationship with the young married woman in the beginning?
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Syd
Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:27 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 12541 Location: Norman, Oklahoma
Befade: sounds like you would like someone to do a film about "Eddie" Seda, the New York killer who selected his victims according to the signs of the Zodiac. (He was born in 1969 or 1970 so cannot be the California Zodiac Killer.) Seda was indeed captured in 1996 and is serving life in prison. The film could be called Zodiac II

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