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| Joe Vitus |
 Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:30 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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| Indeed, though Marshall cut "We'd Like to Thank You, Herbert Hoover," one of my favorite songs from the show. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:34 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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Gromit,
I'm smiling a little that you thought Liliom was about to end at the hold up scene. Mainly because Carousel is so famous, and the plot is almost the same (though moved to New England, and the resolution is...different). In it's day, Liliom was one of the most famous and popular plays in the world, one reason Rodgers & Hammerstein almost didn't make a musical of it. It gave Molnar his international reputation, and he was considered a major playwrite for about the first half of the 20th century. Of course, today few people have any idea who Molnar is, let alone Liliom. |
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| Marj |
| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:02 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 10497
Location: Manhattan
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Joe,
First, thanks. And this is embaressing but I've never read Liliom. And now if it's out on DVD I am definitely going to see it.
Did R&H fear that turning it into a musical would meet with some kind of backlash?
And I did tell you that Hugh Jackman is remaking Carousel in 2008, right? I wish I could tell you more about it but that really is all I know.
I've always wondered who Liliom was. I have got to read this play or at least see the film. |
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| Marj |
| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:11 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: Manhattan
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Liliom is being released March 30th. And now I know Liliom is.
Joe --I keep checking on the R&H book but the price never comes down. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:33 pm |
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Location: Houston
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Marj wrote: Joe,
First, thanks. And this is embaressing but I've never read Liliom. And now if it's out on DVD I am definitely going to see it.
Did R&H fear that turning it into a musical would meet with some kind of backlash?
And I did tell you that Hugh Jackman is remaking Carousel in 2008, right? I wish I could tell you more about it but that really is all I know.
I've always wondered who Liliom was. I have got to read this play or at least see the film.
Liliom is the name of the lead charcter, Billy Bigelow in Carousel. Actually, it's his nickname. It means "flower" in Hungary. An early, unused English translation called him "Dandelion." It's meant to sarcastically re-enforce the bluntness and toughness of his personality, like calling a street punk "creampuff."
Yeh, you told me about Jackman. That would be great, I think, if it happens. Inlare posted a link to an article.
It wasn't a backlash, it was more of a "why?" Green Grow the Lilacs was a charming play, but a flop, and they could see how it could be used for something better. On the other hand, Liliom was already an international success, twice produced by the Theater Guild in America alone, twice filmed. What was the point? But Theresa Helpburn, head of the Guild and the person who first thought Green Grow the Lilacs would make a good musical, had her heart said on it.
Interestingly, Molnar rejected Puccini's suggestion to make an opera out of it, saying "I want Liliom to be remember as a Ferenc Molnar play, not a Puccini opera." I'm not sure what persuaded him to let Rodgers and Hammerstein do it, maybe that he was a refugee from what had become Hitler's Hungary, and needed the money. Or maybe he just changed his mind.
A funny story. Everyone was scared he'd hate the upbeat ending the musical added. He saw a preview, and met the company afterwards. He praised the actors, the songs, then turned to Rouben Mamoulian, the director (who smoked giant cigars with a wastebasked in front of him to collect the ashes) and said "But YOU, Mr. Momoulian" and everyone froze in fear. "But YOU, Mr. Momoulian. You smoke to much." He loved the ending.
I own a Collected Works of Molnar. I'll xerox of a copy of the play for you. |
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| Marj |
| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:47 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: Manhattan
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Joe -- Thanks so much. For both the insight and the play! Wow, finally I'll get to know whether the new Carousel works.
Of course we have a lot of time. Now I'm off to find Inla's post. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:08 pm |
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Joe Vitus wrote: Gromit,
I'm smiling a little that you thought Liliom was about to end at the hold up scene. Mainly because Carousel is so famous, and the plot is almost the same (though moved to New England, and the resolution is...different). In it's day, Liliom was one of the most famous and popular plays in the world, one reason Rodgers & Hammerstein almost didn't make a musical of it. It gave Molnar his international reputation, and he was considered a major playwrite for about the first half of the 20th century. Of course, today few people have any idea who Molnar is, let alone Liliom.
That was the play I heard on the radio when I was a kid. And a few years later when I saw Carousel, about half way through it hit me, this is the play I heard on the radio. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:13 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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| I like Liliom. Neither it nor Green Grow the Lilacs are quite as good as Carousel or Oklahoma! (and I don' think my responses are due to the fact I encountered the musicals first, either), but I like them. They both represent kinds of theater we, unfortunately, don't have anymore. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:24 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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| Carousel is still the best of the Rodgers and Hammerstein musicals IMO. It tends to take a back seat to such audience favorites as South Pacific, The King and I, and The Sound of Music, not to mention Oklahoma!--but artistically it's the best of them all. |
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| Marj |
| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:13 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: Manhattan
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| Billy -- Did you see any of these shows during their original runs? |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:47 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: New York City
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Marj wrote: Billy -- Did you see any of these shows during their original runs?
Saw The King and I with Yul Brynner and Constance Carpenter right after Gertrude Lawrence had left the cast (I was around ten years old). Saw The Sound of Music in New Haven pre-Broadway (twice) in, I think, 1959. This was before "Edelweiss" had been added to the show.
The Sound of Music was incredibly saccharine on stage with a sicky-sweet Mary Martin and the horrible "An Ordinary Couple" in the score. But it was still a great show thanks to "Do-Re-Mi" and "Maria" and "My Favorite Things" and "The Lonely Goatherd." It also included moments of semi-sardonic humor in "No Way to Stop It" and "How Can Love Survive?" which were deleted from the movie. The movie version was still a great improvement due to Julie Andrews and that amazing opening shot. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:50 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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| I think--don't quote me, but I'm pretty sure--that "Edelweiss," believe it or not, is the single most valuable copyright in the entire Rodgers and Hammerstein catalogue. Pretty good for a last-minute addition. (It replaced a reprise by the children of the title song, which was ear-splittingly off-key in New Haven.) |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:35 pm |
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| I could never stand Edelweiss. |
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| Marj |
| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:31 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 10497
Location: Manhattan
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Thanks Billy.
And I do like Edelweis. Especially within the context of the show. I also heard Audra McDonald sing it on PBS on New Years's Eve, with just one guitar, as it should be. The entire concert was wonderful and she did a beautiful job with Edelweis and didn't over sing it.
My only wish was that the concert could be shown again. But I doubt PBS re airs concerts for specific occasions such as New Year's Eve. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:20 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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| I like "Edelweiss," too. I'm going to share a quote that always comes to mind when I hear the song, from Martin Gottfried's Broadway Musicals. "The bond of the two men, as a team and as friends, can be felt in this beautiful melody's tenderness and intimacy, the lovely lyrics. Hammerstein at last wrote with uncontrived simplicity. Fittingly, the music was a simple Rodgers waltz." |
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