Third Eye Film Society Forum Index
Author Message

<  Music & Theatre  ~  Theatre

Joe Vitus
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:07 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
Mo,

It's a tough call for me to make. I personally don't think the score has sounded as good as it does on film, but there are elements of the original cast recording I prefer. To be honest, I'm no fan of Jennifer Holliday, the original Effie. To me, she's petulant and bombastic, and her rendition of "And I Am Telling You..." just sounds like ego run amok, whereas I think Jennifer Hudson in the movie makes it real. But on the whole, I think I prefer the Broadway cast to the movie cast in terms of vocals. I think both the orginal cast and the soundtrack are better than the concert recording.

I guess I'd suggest going with the original cast recording, mainly because you've heard the soundtrack and apparently aren't completely satisfied by it, though you find the early music appealing. You might find the Original Cast rectifies that. Have you tried listening to the snippets available on Amazon? Maybe hering the vocals and the music arrangements on the songs you liked (even if it's just a bit) will help you decided if this is the recording for you.

At the moment, I'm going through major computer problems (the power input died; it's a Sony so the part can't be easily bought; essentially I seem to have lost everything; this is not my computer I'm on right now), and so don't have the means to copy a CD, otherwise I'd just make one for you.

_________________
You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.

-Topher
View user's profile Send private message
Marj
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:19 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
Mo,

I'm not the fan that you and Joe are but I see that this is the album that's selling so well. It's the soundtrack to the movie. Of course the fact it's high on Billboard doesn't mean a lot to me.

http://tinyurl.com/yx7kg8

Joe,

Just so I don't misunderstand, you listened to the concert and didn't like Lillias White?
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
Joe Vitus
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:45 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
Correct. Her wost moment is at the height of "And I Am Telling You" where she exhausts herself at one point and goes "whew!" before finishing. This is not done in character, Effie saying "whew! I've put my heart on the line as much as I can" but White stepping out of character to say "folks, this song is wearing me out, but I'm trying to put everything I can into it to entertain you." Terrible, absolutely pulling the listener out of the experience. Otherwises, she's a decent but not outstanding Effie. Much as I dislike the diva grandstanding of Holliday, at least she never pulls anything like that. And her voice clearly has the power to pull off the song.

_________________
You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.

-Topher
View user's profile Send private message
Marj
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:52 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
Wow, Joe.

I've always been a fan of White's. I've got to hear this!!
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
Joe Vitus
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:15 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
If I can ever get to my computer again (and it's a big if) I'd be happy to make you a copy.

But I'm glad Mo will be reading this, because of course my opinion is just my opinion. I wish you had heard the concert recording so you could weigh in with your own response.

_________________
You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.

-Topher
View user's profile Send private message
Marj
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:31 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
Joe,

I just listened to a little of the concert version and I agree with you. The film version is better. Surprisingly I found that on the S/T Beyonce Knowles who is after all a recording artist for some time, really stands out. And yes, Jennifer Hudson's version of "And I'm telling you ..." is better than Lillias White's.

White is more of a B'way singer and sounds really forced singing soul or R&B, and Hudson is a natural gospel singer so she sounds more at home doing this.

PS. I did think however that White's "whoo" was in character. And Hudson took a huge breath before her last note that should have been deleted in mixing. Or maybe not?
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
mo_flixx
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:23 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
Marj wrote:
Mo,

I'm not the fan that you and Joe are but I see that this is the album that's selling so well. It's the soundtrack to the movie. Of course the fact it's high on Billboard doesn't mean a lot to me.

http://tinyurl.com/yx7kg8

Joe,

Just so I don't misunderstand, you listened to the concert and didn't like Lillias White?


Please don't say I'm a "fan." I'm really not. This happens to me all the time - I end up buying soundtrack records and then am soooo disappointed.

Besides I can't take any more heated discussions with Marc about the film. We both love original Motown, soul, and R & B and dislike the way the Motown sound was unsuccessfullly 'adapted' in DREAMGIRLS.

Basically, all I want is a little uptempo music to play in my car.

Have to admit I was impressed with Jennifer Hudson. Not only can she sing, but I think she can act too. Very expressive face. I hope she has a bright future.
View user's profile Send private message
Joe Vitus
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:31 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
Marj wrote:
Joe,

I just listened to a little of the concert version and I agree with you. The film version is better. Surprisingly I found that on the S/T Beyonce Knowles who is after all a recording artist for some time, really stands out. And yes, Jennifer Hudson's version of "And I'm telling you ..." is better than Lillias White's.

White is more of a B'way singer and sounds really forced singing soul or R&B, and Hudson is a natural gospel singer so she sounds more at home doing this.

PS. I did think however that White's "whoo" was in character. And Hudson took a huge breath before her last note that should have been deleted in mixing. Or maybe not?


I like Beyonce, but I think Sheryl Lee Ralph of the original cast is a tad better. Beyonce is too modern, and is trying to pump too much sexuality into her version of the title song. Ralph sounds surprisingly like Diana Ross, and I really enjoy her vocals. The great thing about the original cast recording is that it has that song right after where we see Deena's character turn from background singer to diva, a nice bit I wish the movie had kept.

_________________
You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.

-Topher
View user's profile Send private message
mo_flixx
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:51 am Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
Joe Vitus wrote:
Marj wrote:
Joe,

I just listened to a little of the concert version and I agree with you. The film version is better. Surprisingly I found that on the S/T Beyonce Knowles who is after all a recording artist for some time, really stands out. And yes, Jennifer Hudson's version of "And I'm telling you ..." is better than Lillias White's.

White is more of a B'way singer and sounds really forced singing soul or R&B, and Hudson is a natural gospel singer so she sounds more at home doing this.

PS. I did think however that White's "whoo" was in character. And Hudson took a huge breath before her last note that should have been deleted in mixing. Or maybe not?


I like Beyonce, but I think Sheryl Lee Ralph of the original cast is a tad better. Beyonce is too modern, and is trying to pump too much sexuality into her version of the title song. Ralph sounds surprisingly like Diana Ross, and I really enjoy her vocals. The great thing about the original cast recording is that it has that song right after where we see Deena's character turn from background singer to diva, a nice bit I wish the movie had kept.


Beyonce' was never much more than a fashion plate in the movie. She never made it to diva status.
View user's profile Send private message
billyweeds
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:03 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20490 Location: New York City
mo_flixx wrote:

Beyonce' was never much more than a fashion plate in the movie. She never made it to diva status.


You sound like her career is over rather than on the rise, which like it or not it is. The problem with Beyonce Knowles in Dreamgirls, and to a lesser degree with Sheryl Lee Ralph (a more talented lady) is that the role of Deena has always been ridiculously underwritten, perhaps in an effort to avoid litigation from Diana Ross. Anyone who reads the trash bio Call Me Miss Ross by J. Randy Taborelli knows that Diana Ross was no angel (to put it very mildly), and the fact that Dreamgirls makes Deena the next thing to an innocent bystander has always for me been the most serious flaw in the show, even more damaging than the very mediocre score.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
billyweeds
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:08 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20490 Location: New York City
[quote="billyweeds"]
mo_flixx wrote:

Beyonce' was never much more than a fashion plate in the movie. She never made it to diva status.


You sound like her career is over rather than on the rise, which like it or not it is. The problem with Beyonce Knowles in Dreamgirls, and to a lesser degree with Sheryl Lee Ralph (a more talented lady) is that the role of Deena has always been ridiculously underwritten, perhaps in an effort to avoid litigation from Diana Ross. Anyone who reads the trash bio Call Me Miss Ross by J. Randy Taborelli knows that Diana Ross was no angel (to put it very mildly), and the fact that Dreamgirls makes Deena the next thing to an innocent bystander has always for me been the most serious flaw in the show, even more damaging than the very mediocre score.

I have to say (and I'd love comments on this--Joe? Marj?) that the effort to get Jennifer Hudson an Oscar by putting her role in the "supporting actress" category is revolting manipulation IMO. Hers is the leading role in Dreamgirls and always has been. She has the big story arc; she is the one the audience identifies with; she is the lead. If Hudson wins, and she probably will, her victory should have an asterisk next to it, as should Patty Duke's in The Miracle Worker, Walter Matthau's in The Fortune Cookie, and several others.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
billyweeds
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:12 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20490 Location: New York City
[quote="billyweeds"][quote="billyweeds"]
mo_flixx wrote:

Beyonce' was never much more than a fashion plate in the movie. She never made it to diva status.


I have to say (and I'd love comments on this--Joe? Marj?) that the effort to get Jennifer Hudson an Oscar by putting her role in the "supporting actress" category is revolting manipulation IMO. Hers is the leading role in Dreamgirls and always has been. She has the big story arc; she is the one the audience identifies with; she is the lead. If Hudson wins, and she probably will, her victory should have an asterisk next to it, as should Patty Duke's in The Miracle Worker, Walter Matthau's in The Fortune Cookie, and several others.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
billyweeds
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:12 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20490 Location: New York City
Sorry. Why no edit feature?????
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
mo_flixx
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:02 am Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
billyweeds wrote:
mo_flixx wrote:

Beyonce' was never much more than a fashion plate in the movie. She never made it to diva status.


You sound like her career is over rather than on the rise, which like it or not it is. The problem with Beyonce Knowles in Dreamgirls, and to a lesser degree with Sheryl Lee Ralph (a more talented lady) is that the role of Deena has always been ridiculously underwritten, perhaps in an effort to avoid litigation from Diana Ross. Anyone who reads the trash bio Call Me Miss Ross by J. Randy Taborelli knows that Diana Ross was no angel (to put it very mildly), and the fact that Dreamgirls makes Deena the next thing to an innocent bystander has always for me been the most serious flaw in the show, even more damaging than the very mediocre score.


I agree, billy. The same thoughts occurred to me. We all know that MISS ROSS is litigious. And I've read _Call Her Miss Ross_.
I thought Beyonce' was adorable in the Austin Powers movie - and felt she had tons of potential. BTW, she and her mother now have a pricy, fashionable line of clothing out now. I certainly don't think she is on the way out.
But let's face it, what we see in DREAMGIRLS is a very pretty face,, gt. clothes, and some amazing hairstyles (all of which I liked).

BTW - just look at the characters' names:

Deena Jones which is very close to Diana Ross;
Curtis Taylor, Jr. which is close to Berry Gordy, Jr.

IMO, Jennifer Hudson can be legitimately called "Supporting" because she is off the screen (while her character is down and out) for a sizeable portion of the movie.
View user's profile Send private message
Marj
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:02 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
Having no familiarity with Dreamgirls before seeing the movie, I said to my friend during the movie, "Wait! Effie is the lead character!" Of course not being familar with the Oscars and the machinations that go into placing certain people in certian categories, he had no idea why I sounded so surprised.

Of course the role of Deena is underwritten. And it's really too bad. I had thought going in that this was the story of the rise of Deena Jones, one that might mirror that of Diana Ross. I say it's too bad because I thought that Beyonce Knowles could have handled a more fleshed out character. I was impressed with what little I saw. But that tacked on song (for Oscar consideration) "Listen" was weak.

Joe mentioned a song that was in the play that the B'way Deena sang shortly after her rise to fame. Perhaps that might have made a difference, but the music as it was, was just not that great so I doubt it.

I do wish this composer could have written some music that really was Motown. That was perhaps the show's biggest failing. The only way one could notice changes in decades were by costumes and sets. Hello! This is a musical!

I'm glad you brought this up, Billy. I had almost forgotten about my initial reaction to Effie being the lead.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger

Display posts from previous:  

All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 3 of 63
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4 ... 61, 62, 63  Next
Post new topic

Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum