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Trish
Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:21 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 2438 Location: Massachusetts
Thanks Gary
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Joe Vitus
Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:30 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
ehle64 wrote:
Paper Moon would have been a completely different film in color, too.


Indeed.

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whiskeypriest
Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:02 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 6916 Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
ehle64 wrote:
Paper Moon would have been a completely different film in color, too.

whiskey -- I don't know whether or not you were joking, but generally, in a genre-specific forum, spoiler alerts are not necessarry. If a paticular film you haven't seen is being discussed, read on and be spoiled, or better yet, see the film, go back to the beginning of the discussion and please, please add your thoughts. As you did. Thanks.

Of course I was joking. I knew that reading the posts would give away plenty about the movie; I probably would not have rented it but for what I read about it here ("A movie with Crowe, Basinger... Nah, break out Lauraagain.").

By the way, I don't really dislike movies in color; there are plenty of movies where color is a tremendous advantage - any epic, for instance; say, Bridge on the River Kwai, Gone With the Wind, The Lord of the Rings. Black and white just is more conducive to the types of stories and movies I prefer.

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mo_flixx
Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:05 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
Trish wrote:
mo_flixx wrote:
Re: the "rape" scene. Yes, it is problematic.

But having Pierce be the aggressor (not Basinger) reinforces the ruthless, evil quality he projects and undermines the "golden boy" quality he has managed to manufacture.

As the aggressor, Basinger would lose our sympathy. In the film she's able to carefully negotiate the fine line between bad girl and victim.


It wasn't a damn rape scene !! drop that idea and there will be no problem with the scene I haven't a clue why you guys got that in your heads


That's why I used quotation marks!
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whiskeypriest
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:02 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 6916 Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
I recognize "rape" is a misnomer. But the problem is still there: the whole scene is plot driven rather than character driven. Moreover, the whole photograph plot would depend on the evildoes knowing that Exley would react precisely the way he does. It's just not plausible.

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marantzo
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:14 am Reply with quote
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Whiskey, I can't be sure, but I don't think that scene or plot contrivance is in the book. Exley and White are very different cops and not particularly friends but do end up pursuing the case together, but I have no memory of that set-up seduction scene taking place. I could be wrong. I think that Exley may have actually seduced or raped her in the book, but I don't think it was a set up.
marantzo
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:16 am Reply with quote
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And I was also thinking that it depended on them knowing somehow how Exley would respond and I found that a pretty big stretch.
Marj
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:46 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
whiskeypriest wrote:
I recognize "rape" is a misnomer. But the problem is still there: the whole scene is plot driven rather than character driven. Moreover, the whole photograph plot would depend on the evildoes knowing that Exley would react precisely the way he does. It's just not plausible.


I think everyone who has been discussing it does as well. But as one person refers to it as the rape scene it is just easier and maybe even polite to refer to it that way too.

My understanding and I may be wrong is that the set up was something we never saw. Perhaps a mistake by Hanson, but it seems to be confusing to a lot LAC viewers. But I agree with Whiskey. It doesn't fit with the characters as we have come to know them. With the exception of Sid of course.

One more thing, as I've had to away for a few days, I was thinking about how confusing many noir film plots are. If anyone can make head or tails out of The Big Sleep, I'd really like to know.
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dlhavard
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:58 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 1352 Location: Detroit (where the slow are run over)
Quote:
One more thing, as I've had to away for a few days, I was thinking about how confusing many noir film plots are. If anyone can make head or tails out of The Big Sleep, I'd really like to know.


I'd say the same thing about The Maltese Falcon (it was on Turner a few nights ago). To my mind NOIR is generally a "dark and twisted alley going nowhere.............."

By the way, for Big Sleep - which version?

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whiskeypriest
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:00 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 6916 Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
Quote:
If anyone can make head or tails out of The Big Sleep, I'd really like to know.


You are of course aware that Hawks and Faulkner, working on the screenplay, couldn't figure out who had killed the chauffeur, or if his death was a suicide. They asked Chandler, who said he'd get back to them and about an hour later called them and told them he didn't know either.

But then, of course, it is only the plot twists that are hard to figure out, not the actions of the characters as characters. And of course, as far as I'm concerned the movie exists for the discussion of race horses. Between that and that whiskey bottle in To Have and To Have Not for my favorite Bogie/Becall scenes. Back then, movies were sexy. Nowadays, they'd just take off their clothes and fuck like bunnies.

There are times when I am in fact a 70 year old man sitting in a rocking chair on the front porch banging my cane on the floor and railing at the sins of modernity.

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Marj
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:02 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
The Humphrey Bogart version, Dawn. I don't remember the year. But it was on TCM over the last few days as well. I absolutely love it. Even if I can't make heads or tails of it. It has to be one of the wittiest noirs I've ever seen.
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Marj
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:05 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
whiskeypriest wrote:
Quote:
If anyone can make head or tails out of The Big Sleep, I'd really like to know.


You are of course aware that Hawks and Faulkner, working on the screenplay, couldn't figure out who had killed the chauffeur, or if his death was a suicide. They asked Chandler, who said he'd get back to them and about an hour later called them and told them he didn't know either.

But then, of course, it is only the plot twists that are hard to figure out, not the actions of the characters as characters. And of course, as far as I'm concerned the movie exists for the discussion of race horses. Between that and that whiskey bottle in To Have and To Have Not for my favorite Bogie/Becall scenes. Back then, movies were sexy. Nowadays, they'd just take off their clothes and fuck like bunnies.

There are times when I am in fact a 70 year old man sitting in a rocking chair on the front porch banging my cane on the floor and railing at the sins of modernity.


Whisky,

No I wasn't! [Hanging my head in shame]

There are times in which I'd like to join you on your porch, that is if it's OK?
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whiskeypriest
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:06 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 6916 Location: "It's a Dry Heat."
It's a big porch and all are welcome. BYOC.

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marantzo
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:54 pm Reply with quote
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I'm not 70 yet, but Whiskey is right, cane or no cane. The sexuality in todays movies (American) just doesn't smolder like it used to in the 'golden age'. It definitely more graphic now and definitely less erotic. I'm sure everyone can come up with a lot of exceptions to argue the point but as a generality, I'll stand by that.
dlhavard
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:04 am Reply with quote
Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 1352 Location: Detroit (where the slow are run over)
Quote:
I'm not 70 yet, but Whiskey is right, cane or no cane. The sexuality in todays movies (American) just doesn't smolder like it used to in the 'golden age'. It definitely more graphic now and definitely less erotic. I'm sure everyone can come up with a lot of exceptions to argue the point but as a generality, I'll stand by that.


A History of Violence. There was that one scene on the stairs - WHEW! Talk about smoldering - those two burst into flame.

But I agree, it is the exception, not the rule.

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