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| Marj |
 Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:20 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 10497
Location: Manhattan
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Quote: I think this is part of the reason why the rape committed by Exley jarred so much, whilst a modern audience is not exercise by sexuial transgressions and is willing to tolerate low level corruption and bending of the rules for a greater good it is discomfitted at being expected to side with a rapist. For me this that the rest of the film was not as transgressive as the filmmakers might like to think.
I agree Jeremy, but since I just recently saw the movie again, it is clear to me that Lynn Bracken is in on the set up. She looks right at Syd, to let him know to begin shooting. And clearly could have stopped Exley if she wanted to. But instead pulls Exley closer and helps him to undress.
But I loved what you said about the character's morality. And it's just one other thing I love about this film. It appears that each character is out for himself, put when push comes to shove, they either grow, or show their true colors which were there all along. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:29 am |
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I'm not sure the movie aspires to be transgressive, rather than to illustrate the blatantly ntransgressive behaviour of the officials in charge of L.A. in the 50's. What some people who see the movie may not realise (I'm not talking about you Jeremy), is that what they depict is virtually how it actually was at that time. And much of the ugliness seems to still remain in the LAPD, though it has been cleaned up a lot. What is thrown in our face watching LAC is the absolute corruption, criminal complicity, wanton brutality, engrained racism, extortion and murderous behaviour of the LAPD of the 50's. It's a civic institution that has run completely amuck, unapologetically.
Jack Vincennes (Spacey), is actually the anchor of the film. He is the only one that comes to my mind, who is living what you can consider a normal life. He's good natured, has a sense of humour, a bit of a rounder, loves the good life and really doesn't take things very seriously. A regular guy. As it is brought out, he's the only one who doesn't know why he joined the police force. It's like the thought occured to him and he decided, what the hell. That's how he goes along, with a "sure, why not?' attitude. When he is on the screen the movie takes a refreshing breath. You can't help but like him and his uncomplicated approach to things. He's a friendly and charming guy and that's how he survives. When he does get pressed into action and you see that he is actually an excellent detective who really believes in solving cases, it is a thrill to watch.
This performance by Spacey is right up there with his best, if not his best. And he has an impressive list of fine performances. His rather smarmy relationship/partnership with DeVito is somehow charming in a perverse way.
Another thing: he's the most intelligent and perceptive character in the picture. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:42 am |
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What Marj said about the rape set up is right. What is unclear is why she would have gone a long with that. Especially if she knew that the ultimate purpose was to get White to kill Exley. I think they got her into the scheme by paying her to do it and telling her that it was to blackmail Exley whom she didn't like anyway.
Those women and their womanly wiles.  |
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| Marj |
| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:18 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 10497
Location: Manhattan
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Gary,
I could never improve on what you said about Spacey. He is amazing in this film. Much better than either film he won his Oscars for. It's a more subtle performance then either Virbil Kint, or Lester Burnham, so of course it was overlooked by the acadamy.
I think it's interesting that what caused all three of the central characters to change was not love or money, but the simple knowledge that there was something wrong about the Night Owl killings and that Fleur de Lis, had something to do with it. This is what sets all three, Ed Exley, Jack Vincennes, and Bud White on the trail and makes them feel like real detectives. Jack ends up taking it so seriously that he get's killed for his troubles. An amazing scene btw. It never fails to shock me no matter how often I see it. |
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| mo_flixx |
| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:56 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
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marantzo wrote: Here a little trivia that you might find interesting. I had a very brief little fling with one of Mickey Cohen's ex-mistresses. She eventually testified against him. I don't think it was in court, I think it was in front of some congressional investigation. She wrote a book about it called Everyone Knows My Face. She's even mentioned in the book L.A. Confidential. She was also an actress in a few movies. This little tryst took place in Las Vegas about 25 years ago. She, like Miss Bracken was a very nice person, though not the vulnerable type. I still have her phone number. I think I'll put it up for bids on EBay.
Tell us more, Gary! No luck with Google...but wikipedia's bio. of another girlfriend, Candy Barr, is fascinating. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:46 pm |
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| I know you love this kind of stuff mo. Her name is Liz Renay. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:29 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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| Gary and Marj--You are both so on the money about Spacey in this movie. And, yes, it's a better performance--myself, I would say far better--than either of his Oscarwinning performances. I think Spacey is a fine, excellent actor, but a bit oversold in general. However, when it comes to L.A. Confidential, no amount of overselling is possible. His performance is astounding, and his last moment is a great and memorable one. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:32 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: New York City
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| Spacey's second-best perfomance IMO is in the unsuccessful but very much worth seeing Consenting Adults, in which Forest Whitaker also rocks. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:53 pm |
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I've never googled Liz's name, so I just did. I read a long interview with her. She's just like I remember, but she never mentioned me once. Must have forgotten me already. Bitch.
Well mo, this is just for you so don't tell anyone. I think it was 1979 and i was staying at the Aladdin. That's when it was run by the 'boys'. Late one night I was at the Baccarat table, I think i was the only one there, except for the two shills. I was having a lot of fun and winning. I was in good form humour wise and the good looking blonde shill beside me really seemed to enjoy my funny comments. I guess I played for about 2 or 3 hours and during that time Liz and I would have a little fun back-and-forth. When she took a break the dealer told me who she was but he couldn't remember the gangster that she was involved with. Young whippersnapper. He said she testified against him, which I now know is wrong. She kept her mouth shut and spent 27 months in jail. And that wasn't even for the Mickey Cohen case it was for a case against Anastasia. As btime went on I asked when her shift was finished and she told me, "In about 20 minutes" I asked if she wanted to come up to my room for a drink. She said OK but that she would have to meet me at the side entrance because they wouldn't let them go with any of the customers. She left and I stayed about another 15 minutes or so and went to the side entrance. Not only was she there but she asked if it would be OK if her girlfriend (the other shill) came with us. As you can imagine, I said, "No problem."
I went up to the room first and they showed up at the door a few minutes later. I had ordered some bloody marys from room service and we all had a great time. We told each other about our lives etc. I can't remember the other woman's name, but she was Danish and also someone you would do a double take for. I had some coke and decided to share it. When I brought it out Liz said to her friend, "Woo, look what Gary's got."
Well you get the idea, we had lots of fun. And they weren't hookers. I called her the next time I was in Las Vegas and still not involved with anyone. She asked me to come to her place so we could say hello in person, but that there was someone there with her so she couldn't invite me in. I went and she skipped out to the gate and we a nice little chat until she couldn't let her date wait any longer and we said our goodbyes. That's the last I saw of her because after that I was involved. I did see her friend, the other shill on that trip. Liz told her that I was in town and she got in touch with me and made a date for the next night. But that another story. |
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| mo_flixx |
| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:31 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
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marantzo wrote: I know you love this kind of stuff mo. Her name is Liz Renay.
Actually, I've heard lots about Liz Renay! So that's who it was. Wow. |
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| mo_flixx |
| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:35 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
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Another Gonzo romance from Gary Marantz!
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| mo_flixx |
| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:37 pm |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
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Re: Liz Renay.
Actually the title of her book was MY FACE FOR THE WORLD TO SEE. She was very big in Hollywood circles in the '70's. We used to talk about her all the time. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:39 pm |
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| You know, mo, I read what I wrote and it almost makes me think that I'm making it up. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:45 pm |
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mo_flixx wrote: Re: Liz Renay.
Actually the title of her book was MY FACE FOR THE WORLD TO SEE. She was very big in Hollywood circles in the '70's. We used to talk about her all the time.
Yeah I noticed that mo. But I was sure she told me that it was called, Everybody Knows My Face although it could have been the Baccarat dealer. His information was a little shaky. We talked some about her book and I think she said she was paid 75 grand for it. Or that she had made that amount up until then. She made the down payment on her house with it. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:12 pm |
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So stepping out of the pages of Las Vegas Confidential and back onto the screen of L.A. Confidential, lest I sabotage my own forum; SPOILERS FOR ANYONE WHO INTENDS TO READ THE BOOK or THE BIG NOWHERE.
I've mentioned before how the movie, cleverly takes parts of this and the novels that brace it and changes them so they will fit into the movie. One thing that is changed is the Buzz Meeks story line. It was he who stole that 25 lbs of cocaine from a mob transaction. This was at the end of The Big Nowhere. He was a very crooked cop. In the prologue to L.A. Confidential it is he who barracades himself in a motel room when the guys he stole it from catch up to him. Mattress against the door and a bunch of other stuff that is used in the movie. It's a great battle scene and he holds his own against the small army that is attacking him but he does get killed, so they brought him back from the dead in the movie. And he wasn't the bodygaurd/facilitator of Patchett but of Howard Hughes. Unless my memory is faulty, the scene where they discover Meeks' body in the basement is a scene from White Jazz and it isn't Meeks' body that they find (I don't think). And I don't remember Sid getting killed. And Dudley isn't killed either. He is gravely wounded but lives. And they do make him a hero.
When I watched this movie a few days ago i couldn't get over how it didn't let up and every scene of mayhem was expertly realised.
Another thing that I found outstanding was the section with the arrest and questioning and eventual booking of the young black rapists for the White Owl Massacre. I didn't catch the names of the actors who played the young Blacks but they were terrific. Their reaction and their dialogue in the interrogation couldn't have been more convincing. It really is hard to think of many movies with so many good performances. It's as is everyone on board took this movie to heart and sunk all their acting lives into it. |
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