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mo_flixx
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:23 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
Actually to be correct, the blurb I read refers to her as a "bisexual."

I had heard that she "came out" before she died of cancer in 1999 at age 59. Or ummm, was it that she was "outed" after her death??


Last edited by mo_flixx on Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sioux
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:46 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 802 Location: philly burbs
mo - my absolute favorite Ang Lee film is one of his early films called "The Wedding Banquet", which is also a "gay" film. He didn't win any awards for it that I know of, but frankly I had been assuming he was gay for a while after that because - well it was his first English language film, and it was really really good.
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sioux
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:50 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 802 Location: philly burbs
And I haven't been around for the post mortem that much, but I will say - I do have a favorite Ang Lee film, and a second favorite Ang Lee film (The Ice Storm) and I saw "Eat Drink Man Woman" in the theater and I saw The Hulk solely because Ang Lee directed it, and so I need to say here, despite all the controversy and whatever:

GO ANG LEE - YAHOO!!!!

His fan club probably consists of me and three other geeks but ...there it is.
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Syd
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:00 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 12892 Location: Norman, Oklahoma
Ang Lee is a wonderful director, and The Wedding Banquet, Eat Drink Man Woman, Sense and Sensibility and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon are great films. I haven't seen The Ice Storm, and Hulk doesn't quite work, although it's still an interesting film. I'm glad he got the Oscar.

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sioux
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:09 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 802 Location: philly burbs
syd - get ye to a video store forewith and renteth The Ice Storm! If I wanted to turn someone onto Ang Lee in one film, ....well - I'd tell them they had to watch two films and I'd show them The Ice Storm second, but....for me- it is a film about melting cynicism.
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lshap
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:24 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 12 May 2004 Posts: 4246 Location: Montreal
mo_flixx wrote:

I don't know if I like the idea of a straight, Chinese director becoming "type-cast" as a director of gay-themed movies!


Care to explain that rather loaded statement? Should his personal demographic typecast him strictly as a director of stories about straight, middle-aged, happily married Chinese guys?
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mo_flixx
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:48 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
lshap wrote:
mo_flixx wrote:

I don't know if I like the idea of a straight, Chinese director becoming "type-cast" as a director of gay-themed movies!


Care to explain that rather loaded statement? Should his personal demographic typecast him strictly as a director of stories about straight, middle-aged, happily married Chinese guys?


I was referring to the rumored film Ang Lee is supposed to be making about the late British pop star (and rumored Lesbian) Dusty Springfield, possibly starring Charlize as Dusty.

IMO, Ang Lee can direct anything - and I don't care what it is - so long as this brilliant guy keeps working!

(Yipes, another person who doesn't get my hyperbole)

Confused
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Joe Vitus
Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:38 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 14498 Location: Houston
Daffy,

It was way back in early January. Here you go.

Quote:

Brokeback Mountain is serious. Credits rolling in silence serious. Terse dialogue and few laughs serious. We’re all going to watch this in a dour and grown-up state of mind serious. It’s a message movie, lumbering and monotonous in just the way to appeal to the heartland of America. There’s no missing the point, because everything else, anything human or spontaneous or digressive, is eliminated. I was bored out of my skull.

Trish's confusion about the first sex scene is understandable. It’s terribly prepared for. True, the script has lines that can be taken for these two men testing the waters, feeling each other out. And obviously we go into the movie knowing what it’s about. But it would help if the director or the actors shaped the scenes to illustrate the men’s attraction to each other. And Ledger and Gyllenhaal have demonstrated no chemistry. The scene itself is awkwardly staged and shot. There’s no way for us to get into it, and almost everything seems to be set up so we don’t (not only does Ledger as the top not use lube, but Gyllenhaal bottoming has been eating beans for weeks). If it were a hot, sexually charged scene, that would take away from the somber, serious drama.

The problem is, sex, if done right, is usually a pleasurable experience, and a movie about sex that doesn’t have the courage to be erotic is running from its subject. These men don’t have much, but they have the moments when their bodies connect. Shouldn’t the pleasure, the liberation, of that be demonstrated? Why must the whole movie be so stoic and funereal?

Because if it weren’t, we’d lose the message: there is hate in the world, and same-sex couples are not free to love. Any indication of happiness, even momentary, would theoretically hamper that (I don't agree, I think it would sharpen the pain, but this is the mindset I think the picture is operating from). Ennis and Jack must always be unsatisfied, always unhappy, always shadowed by people who hate. This is a highly didactic picture.

The whole movie feels false, from the pretty-boy stars to the postcard scenery to the awkward attempts at showing the men shirtless or naked without being exploitative (I guess we can call this “tasteful” or “restrained”). The movie seems dislodged from any real time or place, despite the hairdos and brick-a-brack to indicate what decade we’re in. Anemic country music plays at social gatherings and bars (we finally get some Willie Nelson, but only as the final credits role). The sets feel hollow and unreal. When the two go into Randy Quaid’s trailer office for a job, the place is filled with clutter. But it’s artfully arranged clutter, frozen in place. We see more of the same in the homes of Ledger and Gyllenhaal. No one ever interacts with the junk that surrounds them. It’s just there for aesthetics. The Last Picture Show as produced by Merchant-Ivory.

Ledger gives a terrible one-note performance, but Gyllenhaal is a bit better. His scene looking for another job on Brokeback is particularly good, and he does here what Ledger is basically incapable of: effectively conveying to the audience the thoughts he’s afraid to articulate. Maybe he’s just lucky to have the more innocent and playful role. His wide-eyed look of hurt is effective, and his lassoing of Ledger or telling off his father-in-law provide rare times the audience can sit back and relax. He’s not remotely believable as a country boy, but neither of them are. And the only time their love for each other felt authentic to me was at their first reunion, when Ledger can’t control his desire. But of course there has to be the quick cut to Ledger’s wife: can’t let go of that message.

The ending is undeniably powerful, I left the theater shook up. It’s powerful in the same way scenes dealing with the Holocaust are powerful, or scenes of spousal or child abuse. But this is the easiest, most knee-jerk way a movie can get to an audience. Is this courageous? And should we congratulate a movie for demonstrating what anyone with a moral sense already knows? I get the message, I agree with the point, but I don’t need an after school special on hate crimes. I need a movie that has some life in it, that gives insight into human nature. With luck, it will do this so effectively that it becomes a work of art. Brokeback Mountain smothers the life out of its subject, and if it's art, it's of too determinably monotonous and Victorian a nature to work for me.


I'm linking the page it was on, so you can look through the next few pages and see the responses, my responses to the responses, etc.

http://www.thirdeyefilm.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=81073&highlight=#81073

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daffy
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 2:03 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 1939 Location: Wall Street
Thanks for that, joe. It's amazing that two people can watch the exact same movie and have such opposite reactions! I disagree with almost every single sentence in your review. Sorry about that, but there it is.

It's late, so I don't have time to go back and read the other posts right now (thanks for the link, too, BTW). I'm going to try to see this movie again sometime soon so I can write a more complete review than I did before. I wonder if my view of it will change? I love seeing movies twice in the theater.

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Ghulam
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:34 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 4742 Location: Upstate NY
Eat Drink Man Woman was the only Ang Lee movie I had liked until Breakback Mountain. They are both outstanding.
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jeremy
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:38 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 6794 Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
Brokeback Mountain is extraordinary because it is so ordinary.

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mo_flixx
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 9:12 am Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
jeremy wrote:
Brokeback Mountain is extraordinary because it is so ordinary.


This sums it up beautifully.
I love the simplicity of the storytelling. It is _deceptively_ simple, however.
The Prouix story is now reprinted with some othes by her in a paperback.
Lee captures so beautifully the nuances of first love: the passion, pain, and awkwardness...the time when you loved so much it hurt; felt bliss and tortured at the same time.
I think almost everyone can identify with this and is why the film hit a universal note for so many.
IMO, it went far beyond being "a movie about gay cowboys" or "just a love story."
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chillywilly
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 10:29 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 8250 Location: Salt Lake City
jeremy wrote:
Brokeback Mountain is extraordinary because it is so ordinary.

As Mo said, that's a very true statement. It says what the movie is. When i saw it, there were parts of it that seemed slow, but the way the story was told, it was no different than the many other movies that told the traditional love story, even if the characters in this movie were what some would deem as "un-traditional."

I really would love to see it again on the big screen, but if I don't, I'm sure I'll view the story the same at home once it makes it's appearance on DVD.

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marantzo
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:22 pm Reply with quote
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Joe, much more often than not, I agree with your take on movies. That's why I often say that your taste and peception of movies is very good. If I agree, of course they must be good. As you know, I haven't seen BBM, but what you said about it and the things I have heard about it from both sides, leads me to believe that what you wrote would have been very close to how I would have judged the movie.

There was an interesting take on the movie that I haven't read anyone comment on, that I heard from a woman a week or so ago. She really didn't like the movie and was particulary bothered by the annual adultery that the two main characters commit. You all should know how I feel about adultery treated in a sympathetic manner, so I'm sure I'd agree, but I don't remember anyone on here commenting on this part of the movie. Maybe I missed it because I haven't read all the comments.
marantzo
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:29 pm Reply with quote
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Syd wrote:
Big fucking deal.

Your movie lost.

My movie lost too.

But you don't hear me slandering the people who voted against it.


Syd, you and I are of one mind re. the reaction. Even if on an artistic level the award was given to the wrong movie (my movie didn't win either) there have been many, many more egregious undeservered winners and losers and there was no uproar whatsoever.

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