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| Marilyn |
 Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 1:17 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8210
Location: Skokie (not a bad movie, btw)
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| I haven't seen either Shrek, so take it for what it's worth, but I know a lot of people are taking their kids to see these films and the kids like them. There have always been cartoon/children's films that have something for the adults in them, too. Tex Avery and Chuck Jones cartoons are completely watchable by all ages and have a lot of wonderful wit in them without giving up on the kids altogether. My objection to Finding Nemo, as many of you know, is that it told the story of the father, not the kid, and therefore was leaving behind its supposed target audience. More Baby Boomer navel gazing, IMO. |
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| lissa |
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 1:43 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 2148
Location: my computer
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Marilyn,
Your objection to Finding Nemo is well taken, however I've been watching it a lot recently (Starz has it on now) so I've gotten a chance to reacquaint myself with the story and characters. And from the first viewing when I saw it in theaters, to now, I can honestly say I believe the target audience gets quite a few underlying messages.
Yes, it's Marlin's quest for Nemo, but it is also reaffirmation for children that their parents will do anything for them, even brave sharks and swim the great ocean in order to find them. Nemo knew his father wasn't brave, so when the bird informs Nemo that Marlin's been swimming the entire ocean to find him, the child benefits in multiple ways. First, he feels hope that he will be home - entirely due to his father's efforts. Second, he sees, in this father he knew to be more cautious than anything, a new hero. One who is doing all he possibly can, for his child. That is a pretty important message for kids, in this day and age. No matter how old the kid might be. And third - and maybe more importantly - he develops a strength of his own, in swimming to stop the filter so that the tank dirties up.
While the film focuses on the father, its true message is about overcoming hurdles, whether those hurdles are physical or emotional. And I don't think the kids in the audience felt passed over just because Nemo is not the "true" hero of the film. |
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Statistically, 6 out of 7 dwarfs aren't happy. |
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| Marilyn |
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 1:51 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8210
Location: Skokie (not a bad movie, btw)
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| OK, Lissa. I can accept that. I still think it was a bit too self-congratulatory for the parents in the audience. Of course, maybe some parents need to be taught to put their kids ahead of their own fears. Finding Nemo could be considered a parenting class for some. |
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| lissa |
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 1:54 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: my computer
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Marilyn - good idea, parenting classes. I know a few to whom I'd show Finding Nemo, Parenthood, Steel Magnolias, and that's just off the top of my head.
I wonder if the parents in the audience even FELT self-congratulatory. I, personally, felt the triumph achieved by not only Marlin and Nemo, but Dory, and even the sharks and especially the entire fish community of the aquarium (those bags bobbing in the ocean has to be one of the funniest visuals on film!). It was, to me, just a great film about putting one's mind to doing something because we do what we must, when the chips are down. I didn't come away with it thinking I must be a great hero to my kids because I'd do that for them too. I loved the angle on disabilities and how they can be overcome if one just chooses to do so.
Damn, I wish I still had my original review of the film from the site-that-won't-be-mentioned...I know I said it all in there, and probably a lot better.  |
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Statistically, 6 out of 7 dwarfs aren't happy. |
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| chillywilly |
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 2:07 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8250
Location: Salt Lake City
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lissa,
Great analysis of Finding Nemo. You hit on several things that I saw the first two times I saw the movie. One was how Nemo saw Marlin after he heard how much he was enduring to get to his son. To me, that teaches kids that even though their dads are not Arnold or Superman, when it comes to doing something for the sake of their children's safety and well being, they have the ability to do that.
I loved Nemo and thought it was a great movie in every aspect. While there were some slow parts (my grandbaby stops the DVD player when the screen turns black when Dory and Marlin are deep in the ocean), it was a well done film and one that welcomes repeat viewings.
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Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
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| lshap |
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 3:49 pm |
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Site Admin
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 4246
Location: Montreal
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A friend of mine drives a burgundy Ford Escape. I can't look at it without hearing Ellen DeGeneres' voice saying, "Ehhh-scappeyyy!...Hey, that's spelled just like 'escape'!"
I start giggling everytime she drives by and she thinks I'm an idiot. |
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| lissa |
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 3:59 pm |
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My problem is a little more distracting - every time I go to my kids' school, which is at least twice weekly for volunteer work, the seagulls are out there trying to get whatever crumbs are left over from recess. It's all I can do to not squawk, "Mine! MINE!" at 'em...
chillywilly,
When I saw the film in the theater, I had some serious claustrophobic moments...and I'm not claustrophobic at all, but twice - when the shot zooms in on the shark's mouth, and when the whale comes up behind Marlin and Dory - I found myself gripping the arms of my seat. That's some power of film.
It's still very high on my list, for the reasons I mentioned in prior posts. |
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Statistically, 6 out of 7 dwarfs aren't happy. |
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| chillywilly |
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 4:02 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Salt Lake City
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lissa wrote: My problem is a little more distracting - every time I go to my kids' school, which is at least twice weekly for volunteer work, the seagulls are out there trying to get whatever crumbs are left over from recess. It's all I can do to not squawk, "Mine! MINE!" at 'em...
Took the words right out of my beak.. err.. mouth.
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Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
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| McBain |
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 11:34 pm |
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Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1987
Location: Boston
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| I saw Shrek 2 and it was pretty "meh". I think that one three letter word sums it up. |
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| Joe Vitus |
| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 1:17 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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[b]Marilyn[/b,]
I think I'm even more sensitive to "Baby Boomer naval gazing" than you are, and I sensed nothing like that in Finding Nemo. I thought the movie was great fun. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 6:19 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: New York City
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lissa and chillwilly's comments on "Finding Nemo" echo my own. I've now seen it several times and it just keeps gaining in power and charm. It's one of the timeless animated features IMO, right up there with "Pinocchio" and "Snow White" and "Beauty and the Beast" as one of Disney's all-timers. "Shrek" OTOH seems trendoid and stand-up-comedy-ish and way too cute and self-satisfied for its own good.
And, oh! YES! I just remembered the main problem I have with it! It's supposed to be how outward appearances don't count, right? Like, if you're ugly outside that don't mean a thing? Right? Right??? Are you with me so far? Okay, now listen up. The movie then proceeds to spend hours making fun of a character for being SHORT!!! Am I right? You know I am.
In other words, the movie says, be as ugly as you want. But for fuck's sake, don't be short. That's a no-no. (And I know it's all some idiotic in-joke about Eisner or something, and who outside of a want-to-be-on-the-inside-track mentality gives a fuck about that?)
I detested "Shrek." And, yes, I'm short, and maybe that influenced me. I don't want a generation of youngsters growing up making fun of short people because "Shrek" said it was okay. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 9:10 am |
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Finding Nemo entertaining and/or funny and/or visually exciting etc. are my criteria for it being a good movie or a failure. Putting some sort of sociological baggage on it as an explanation of why you didn't like it is beyond my understanding. Poker and some others have done this and to me this is not film criticism, it's PC socio/babble. What a stretch. We are not talking about Birth of A Nation here.
And Billy, I'm not very tall and I loved Shrek. It met all the criteria that I mentioned above. |
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| Marilyn |
| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 9:18 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8210
Location: Skokie (not a bad movie, btw)
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| PC psycho-babble? Why don't you just tell me I'm ugly and stupid, too! I do what other film critics do--look at the intended audience. I didn't think the film was aimed at kids as well as it could have been. A lot of TV programs and movies for kids have some kind of moral to teach, so if I'm PC, then so is the children's entertainment industry (and woe to them if they cross a line parents don't like!). Just because you were raised by wolves doesn't mean it's good for everyone, Marantzo! |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 9:31 am |
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| dlhavard |
| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 9:39 am |
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Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 1352
Location: Detroit (where the slow are run over)
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| I did see Troy. I must say "it wasn't bad". I sort of rate these sort of pseudo-history movies by the "Spartacus rating". Spartacus being a 10, Troy gets about a 6.5. It weren't NO Spartacus but it wasn't as bad as most people say. It wasn't boring, kept my attention, but I didn't really "feel" anything for the characters. |
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