|
Author |
Message |
|
billyweeds |
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:22 am |
|
|
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
|
shannon--Meant to add that while I really adore Junebug, you and I are on the same page about the best scene: the one where George sings. What a masterpiece that sequence is--and don't discount Embeth Davidtz's (the wife) reaction shot. What a piece of acting. |
|
|
Back to top |
|
lshap |
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:30 am |
|
|
Site Admin
Joined: 12 May 2004
Posts: 4246
Location: Montreal
|
inla,
I'm with Billy on this overpowering sense of frustration over Munich's absence from many Best Picture lists, and though you're right that it wasn't universally well-received, I continue to cling to my theory that the naysayers were critiquing the politics rather than the film itself.
Objectively, it is a fantastic piece of flimmaking. |
|
|
Back to top |
|
Trish |
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:56 am |
|
|
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2438
Location: Massachusetts
|
lshap wrote: MINOR MUNICH SPOILERS
Quote: I was a little confused by Avner's flashbacks, too, mainly because he hadn't been there (in fact, no one in the movie had physically been there) and at best would have heard a verbal description / seen pictures. But then again, the actual event was the last thing he was morally sure about.
I was also troubled by the first part of your paragraph, for the same reasons. Avner's flashbacks seemed more like a continuity problem since he was remembering events he'd never witnessed. But, okay, I'll take the leap and grant him some access to what happened via news reports and his inside contacts.
Your last sentence goes a long way toward explaining his almost constant referencing of the massacre - while having sex, while sleeping, while trying to live his life. He is using the killing of the athletes as his moral anchor, keeping himself centered with the only justification he can use for his actions.
Thanks you gave the best explanation of that last scene - I never had a problem with it - but I know many other people did - my Niece and i actually discussed it recently - she didn't like Munich (thought it was too slow, not enough action - whatever! I never know what to say to such comments -I certainly didn't experience the film that way) and cited that sex scene as an example of another thing that didn't work in the film - I responded that I thought it worked because "Munich" was an obsession of Avner's guiding his actions etc - but really your comments make better sense |
|
|
Back to top |
|
Trish |
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:19 am |
|
|
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2438
Location: Massachusetts
|
inlareviewer wrote: Joe Vitus: What billyweeds and lady w. said about the admirable articulation of your viewpoint, and what ehle said about not being surprised by it.
Meghan Daum's LAT op-ed on women responding to Brokeback:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-daum7jan07,0,3054088.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions
Not being a woman, I can't speak to the veracity of her point of view. I can say that, being someone who read E. Annie Proulx's short story in the New Yorker when it came out in 1997, and never forgot it, that what moved me beyond all other considerations about the film, by which I was fully prepared to be let down, was precisely the imploding, internalized passion and environs that the movie, for me, conveyed, by cinematically reconceiving and subtly expanding Proulx's prose without betraying or distorting it. It moves me still.
Then again, I love Larry David's take on it, so who knows.
Well I never read the short story - so I can't comment on that - but as far as the film goes - the reason why 51% women went and perhap dug it - I personally believe it has less to do with the actors' Emotional "heavylifting" - and a lot more to do with the fact that Ledger and Gyllenhaal are young, hot guys - - not very deep reason - but a lot more honest |
|
|
Back to top |
|
Trish |
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:22 am |
|
|
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2438
Location: Massachusetts
|
|
Back to top |
|
ehle64 |
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:07 am |
|
|
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 7149
Location: NYC; US&A
|
There's something called the 11th Annual Critics' Choice Awards tonight @ 8pm EST on the WB. I don't think I've ever seen these before, but it's as good a night as any to start off this whole awards season. |
_________________ It truly disappoints me when people do something for you via no prompt of your own and then use it as some kind of weapon against you at a later time and place. It is what it is. |
|
Back to top |
|
dlhavard |
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:34 pm |
|
|
Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 1352
Location: Detroit (where the slow are run over)
|
I enjoyed Matador very much. At first I thought it was just this simple domestic comedy with a slight twist and was a little bored half way through. In the last 1/2 hour things changed quickly and then kept changing.
Short storyline - n o s p o i l e r s
Greg Kinnear was excellent as Danny, a quiet man who is down on is luck, at the moment but keeps trying. Kinnear is a delight. I remember watching him as the wonderfully snide host on E. Pierce Brosnan is wonderfully seedy as a hit man who is beginning to burn out. They meet in Mexico and form a friendship, of sorts.
Can't explain anything else without giving it away. But I do recommend it. |
_________________ "We have a slight apocalypse." |
|
Back to top |
|
gromit |
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:41 pm |
|
|
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 9008
Location: Shanghai
|
Thanks for that DLH. I might have to pick Matador up now. Haven't heard anything about it, except someone else gave it some minor praise a day or two ago. Unless that was also you ... I do a bad job of remembering who said what.
I picked up Syriana today, so might have to toss it on soon. Hopefully it's not too long, or I won't get through it tonight, and it doesn't sound like a good movie to watch in installments. |
|
|
Back to top |
|
marantzo |
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:57 pm |
|
|
Guest
|
Quote: Objectively, it is a fantastic piece of flimmaking.
No it isn't. The movie is very uneven. There are a number of very well executed scenes, visually and dramatically, but there are many that don't escape Spielberg's weakness for trying to say something instead of showing us something. Most all of the very good stuff is the action stuff. The Olympic stuff that ended up sprinkled through the movie after having been introduced largely in the beginning, was effectively done and painful, but once again when Speilberg is filming the finale of that gruesome event he takes out the trowel and starts slathering on the extended shots and soaring music and all the crap that insults the viewers' intelligence by force feeding him.
The scene yountalk aboput above of when he is flashing on the Olympic tragedy while being occupied by something else, was in a word, 'obscene'.
I'm not saying that Munich isn't a good movie, it is good. It has enough good parts that give it a respectable grade, but 'great'? Give me a break.
I wasn't bowled over by the lead actor either. He was good, that's it. I thought some of the supporting actors were very good.
The movie is blatantly dishonest, but why quibble. |
|
|
Back to top |
|
billyweeds |
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:06 pm |
|
|
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
|
marantzo wrote: Quote: Objectively, it is a fantastic piece of flimmaking.
No it isn't. The movie is very uneven. There are a number of very well executed scenes, visually and dramatically, but there are many that don't escape Spielberg's weakness for trying to say something instead of showing us something. Most all of the very good stuff is the action stuff. The Olympic stuff that ended up sprinkled through the movie after having been introduced largely in the beginning, was effectively done and painful, but once again when Speilberg is filming the finale of that gruesome event he takes out the trowel and starts slathering on the extended shots and soaring music and all the crap that insults the viewers' intelligence by force feeding him.
The scene yountalk aboput above of when he is flashing on the Olympic tragedy while being occupied by something else, was in a word, 'obscene'.
I'm not saying that Munich isn't a good movie, it is good. It has enough good parts that give it a respectable grade, but 'great'? Give me a break.
I wasn't bowled over by the lead actor either. He was good, that's it. I thought some of the supporting actors were very good.
The movie is blatantly dishonest, but why quibble.
Your entire post is one long--and IMO wildly inaccurate--quibble. Munich is one of the best films I've seen in my life. |
|
|
Back to top |
|
billyweeds |
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:24 pm |
|
|
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
|
|
Back to top |
|
yambu |
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 5:33 pm |
|
|
Joined: 23 May 2004
Posts: 6441
Location: SF Bay Area
|
billyweeds wrote: .....Munich is one of the best films I've seen in my life. Schindler's List is in that category for me, but not this one. I enjoyed it immensely. Each Mossad team member was fascinating, and the close-order action was superb. But its preachiness diminished my pleasure. And I'm still bothered by the Israelis and Palestinians all showing up at the same safe house, just so their leaders can have a conversation about their respective world views. And the love-making scene was a dramatic disaster.
Finally, though I saw it three or four weeks ago, I'm having trouble recalling Eric Bana's face, so I guess he won't be on my best actor list. |
_________________ That was great for you. How was it for me? |
|
Back to top |
|
Joe Vitus |
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:15 pm |
|
|
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
|
Billy,
Thanks. In general, I liked Anne Hathaway better of the two women. I wasn't as crazy about Michelle Williams. I didn't think Williams was bad, I just didn't find her character as interesting. Plus she has that, to me, totally implausible speech about Ledger's never bringing back fish and putting the note in the tacklebox. (Someone as terrified of being outed as Ledger would be so stupid as to make such obvious mistakes?) |
_________________ You've got a great brain. You should keep it in your head.
-Topher |
|
Back to top |
|
inlareviewer |
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:27 pm |
|
|
Joined: 05 Jul 2004
Posts: 1949
Location: Lawrence, KS
|
Shannon: Even your phone call was inconclusive? Harrumph.
Oh, my goodness, I used an emoticon! Hide me, hide me, Miep!
billy: Well, backatcha, toots. Of course you're infuriated. It's your Best Picture pitcha.
lshap: I have no doubt that that sort of unease factors in as well.
marantzo: Your reaction and yambu's resemble what about a third of my acquaintances and colleagues have expressed about Munich. Another third echo billy and lshap.
What the other third or so are saying...well, I try to avoid profanity in public discourse.
Gromit: I guarantee you that if you try to view Syriana in segments, you'll short-circuit.
Trish: I am sure you're right. I suspect many boys in the band also went for precisely that reason.
I didn't. Being theretofore convinced that the film wouldn't match up with Proulx, I went, well, frankly, because a fellow widower literally made me go on opening day, but that's another story, never mind, anywhey.
Am so gratified at the appreciation of Anne Hathaway's overlooked contribution to Broketain Mountback, not least since hers is the principal with the least Proulx to draw from, as opposed to the devastating Michelle Williams (or is that soon to be Ledger-Williams? Some girls have all the luck), who steps off of and is conscribed by the original's pages, so E. Annie sort of handed her Alma. In the story, SPOILERISH Lureen is not much more than a casually mentioned off-stage persona until the Ennis/Lureen phone call, and that's from Ennis' POV. I mean, who knew? The Former Princess of Genovia's reactions during the Couples Night Out, say, or the Twist GivingThanks scene (both screenwriters' flesh-outs/inventions, like Kate Mara's grown Alma Jr. and Linda Cardellini's wannabe Ennis squeeze, both incisive, but I digress), alone... Or those li'l-girl gasp-chirps that sneak out from her gun-metallic voice during the phone scene.... I weep
Oh, no! I've done it again! I can hear the Emoticon Police pounding at the door. Kiss me, Peter!
(Have I mentioned lately that Anne Frank is my hero(ine)? Well, she is. So there.)
Don't get me started on Roberta Maxwell as Mrs. Twist. Brokeback seems, no matter what else, a definite ensemble award contender at the SAGGYs. |
_________________ "And take extra care with strangers/Even flowers have their dangers/And though scary is exciting/Nice is different than good." --Stephen Sondheim |
|
Back to top |
|
chillywilly |
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:28 pm |
|
|
Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8250
Location: Salt Lake City
|
Joe Vitus wrote: Plus she has that, to me, totally implausible speech about Ledger's never bringing back fish and putting the note in the tacklebox. (Someone as terrified of being outed as Ledger would be so stupid as to make such obvious mistakes?)
Actually, that was one part that I thought was pretty accurate. Not to put him down, but Ennis was a simple minded cowboy. He really didn't have much in the organization department, which lead me to believe the last thing he would have thought of was to dot each 'i' and cross each 't' when he was trying to hide his relationship.
Alma tended to suspect and kept one step ahead of Ennis, but at the same time, was pretty much in that same unorganized state.
Later when Ennis met Cassie and after things didn't work out, they had that talk at the diner, it was evident to me that Cassie finally realized that Ennis wasn't really much into the details of keeping things together. Although I think part of his not caring was related to his relationship with Jack. But for the most part, he was all simple and unorganzied. |
_________________ Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|