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| censored-03 |
 Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 6:22 am |
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Joined: 24 May 2004
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| Ghulam |
| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 12:14 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Upstate NY
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"Orchestra Rehearsal" is a made for TV movie. Fellini was long fascinated by how the music for his movies was created by a disparate group of musicians, all individualists, coming together to create a harmonious sound. The movie is made in the form of a "documentary" in which a TV crew visits an orchestra rehearsing in a hall, once part of a church building. Various musicians are interviewed. They are all very proud of the instruments they play, revealing some rivalries between various sections of the orchestra. Before the conductor arrives, there are arguments, pranks, exchange of slaps etc between various players. The conductor himself is seen as being too rigid and too authoritarian by several members of the orchestra. Later there is a rebellion and vandalism.
Fellini admitted that he was partly influenced by the assassination of Prime Minister Aldo Moro, but one cannot escape similarities with the love-hate relationship of the Italians with Mussolini. While Fellini was steeped in Jungian psychology, I saw in this movie derivations from Freud's Group Psychology and the Analysis of the Ego. A group needs a leader because without a leader they are going to fight with each other and perhaps tear each other apart. At the same time there is a (edipal) rivalry with the leader, and a wish to remove him or kill him. If this becomes reality, members of the group can each do what they like. Soon there is anarchy and mayhem. A need for a leader is again felt, and a new leader is brought in, or the old leader is reinstalled, who now is even more dictatorial then he was before. For the role of the conductor, Fellini casts a German actor, who in the final scene is shown to be very demanding and dictatorial, in a voice eerily like that of Hitler.[/i] |
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| otto e mezzo |
| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:54 pm |
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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I know some people were asking where you can get "O R". Last time I saw it, I got it from the public library. Probably depends on where you are, but the library is a good place to find Fellini films.
Maybe you have already talked about this, but a film about Fellini meeting Carlos Castaneda is in the works.
Who do you think should play an older Fellini? |
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| censored-03 |
| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:04 am |
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Bravo on your entire OR post Ghulam, but this musical metaphor stuck in my mind particularly.....Quote: A group needs a leader because without a leader they are going to fight with each other and perhaps tear each other apart. At the same time there is a (edipal) rivalry with the leader, and a wish to remove him or kill him. If this becomes reality, members of the group can each do what they like. Soon there is anarchy and mayhem. A need for a leader is again felt, and a new leader is brought in, or the old leader is reinstalled, who now is even more dictatorial then he was before.
otto I discussed Federico's strange meeting (or his belief he probably met the real) Carlos Castaneda, but we never talked about the upcoming film about that event. I hope it takes off. ? as Fellini...something to think about. Rossano Brazzi's dead no ?  |
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"Life is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel."
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| censored-03 |
| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:06 am |
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| I get my copy of Orchestra Rehearsal tomorrow..at the library. |
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"Life is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel."
-- Horace Walpole |
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| otto e mezzo |
| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:38 am |
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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"Rossano Brazzi's dead no ? "
Si' e' vero.
Any other thoughts on who could play Fellini? Too bad Marcello isn't around. I think make up etc. could make a younger actor look like the older Fellini. Adriano Giannini could possibly make a good Fellini. I heard a lot of Hollywood actors are dying to get this role. I just hope they pick the right actor.
I heard the movie is going to be based on the Fellini starring comic book "Trip to Tulum". Hopefully I will not have to explain to people anymore that Fellini isn't the guy who directed Eastwood in that cowboy movie, or that he is just a reference in "Under the Tuscan Sun". Or a drink for that matter! |
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| otto e mezzo |
| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 1:47 am |
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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| Or possibly one of his alter egos in "Roma" or "Intervista" could play him...Again! |
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| Ghulam |
| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 2:00 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: Upstate NY
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| Censored, thanks for your comments. This theme is also well brought out in William Golden's book, "Lord of the Flies" and the excellent movie version directed by Peter Brook. |
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| bocce |
| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 2:52 pm |
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Joined: 24 May 2004
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ghulam...
that was a marvelous critique of ORCHESTRA REHEARSAL. there are some other things going on there but you've captured the overall essence perfectly. |
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| bocce |
| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 2:59 pm |
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oh,oh...
i realise i've left that one dangling...one of the sub issues involves the quality of filmaking versus television making (at least, in fellini's mind).
think the limiting aspect of documentary (reality) vs. the fantastic possibilities of full blown cinema... |
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| Ghulam |
| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 3:59 pm |
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| censored-03 |
| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 10:50 pm |
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I got to the library today, I was out of town for a couple days, the films I had ordered had piled up! I ended up taking home Orchestra Rehearsal, And the Ship Sails On, Ginger & Fred and Intervista. I won't be able to watch them all before I leave town again on the 27th, but I will watch as much as I can. I notice that on the back of the tape of Ginger & Fred it quotes Vincent Canby as saying: Ranks with the best work Fellini has ever done. Now I am in a bit of a quandary...I had said we will watch And The Ship Sails On and Intervista as the last two to go with this weeks Orchestra Rehearsal. It's not that Vincent Canby carries all that much weight with me, it's just that after such an enjoyable concentrated grouping of viewings of Fellini's films here in the past couple of months, I have a feeling I will like the film or at least appreciate it more now than when I saw it long ago. If we don't add it to our list, I assume those of you interested will seek it out anyway. What do you folks think...should we add Ginger & Fred to the final 3 or stay the course ?
Opinions ?
As it stands now our list is down to:
And The Ship Sails On (1983)
Intervista (1988) |
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"Life is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel."
-- Horace Walpole |
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| censored-03 |
| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:23 pm |
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I forgot to mention in that last post that Ginger & Fred does feature Mastroianni and Masina together, quite a lure.
Fellini isn't always known as the most subtle director ever, (although I'm not sure I agree with that assessment) but in Orchestra Rehearsal I found Federico's small touches to be just that, such as that of the soft spoken oboe player. I found it to be quite a hoot and really maybe the key to this film's music and musician as metaphor. The oboeist calmly and introspectively describes the oboe as the oldest (invented by the Chinese) and most difficult instrument, and how it's players are isolated, envied even disliked. How the rest of the orchestra has to reckon with it and it's laying down the law. The oboe's an instrument of great spitituality and how it's players have a special power. It gives the player an inner vision of the color of sound that really is the epitome of music and therefore allows him to present that to the listeners ears, hearts and minds. Great stuff! |
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"Life is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel."
-- Horace Walpole |
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| Ghulam |
| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:59 pm |
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Location: Upstate NY
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| Censored. neither Netflix not Greencine has Ginger and Fred, and our library here is very limited, but if others want it included, go ahead and do it. |
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| bocce |
| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:13 pm |
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Joined: 24 May 2004
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given that fellini despised television as a medium that porports to show reality but really manipulates it and his rapid distancing of himself from neo realism, i wonder what he would have thought of the dogme 95 group...
probably as the bastard child of TV and rossellini/de sica style neo realism on a scandanavian vaction. i can see him conceiving a love child with ingmar bergman and kicking von trier's can to the street.
while i doubt it's a conscious theme in ORCHESTRA REHEARSAL, there is the feeling that merely by filming the documentary that the TV crew is influencing the action much in the same way that heisenberg postulated the affect of the observer on any given experiment.
my understanding is that he goes further in to this issue in FRED AND GINGER but i've never seen it. one way or the other federico didn't care for television and makes marked efforts to distance the programme of INTERVISTA from a TV type documentary. |
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