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| pedersencr |
 Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:15 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 921
Location: New Orleans
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Marilyn,
Yes it was!
However, I'm still waiting to hear what is permissible to say, and what not, about Sedaris's writing at this point. Compliments such as yours are apparently "in," and I have previously offered my own. Criticism, however, seems to hit very raw nerves.
Charles |
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| mitty |
| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:43 pm |
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Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 1359
Location: Way Down Yonder.......
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Marj wrote:
[color=blue] Why should a writer or anyone for that matter, apologize for the mistakes of their youth? If anything I think it takes guts to do so.
What would take guts, would be to admit his error and explain why it was an error. If this is to be a valid discussion of Sedaris' book, there must be both praise and criticism. |
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| Marilyn |
| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:51 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8210
Location: Skokie (not a bad movie, btw)
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I think that Mitty and Charles may be a bit oversensitive to what Ehle is saying. This is a lively discussion of differences in the way we take what a writer has to offer us. Mitty and Charles seem to find Sedaris precious and/or untrustworthy. They don't enjoy being in his company. I have had that experience with Paul Theroux, a gifted writer who, nonetheless, made a very poor travel companion for me.
Personally, although I am not far into the book at all, I find Sedaris' revelations of his meanspirited moments, his discovery of the allure of the imagination and the harshness of reality (the Tomkeys were fun when they were unknown, invaders when their rule-breaking infringed on his liberties), to be the types of defining moments that tell me who he is and how he came to tell stories for a living. |
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| ehle64 |
| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:58 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 7149
Location: NYC; US&A
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Thanks, pokra (on many different levels, for many different things posted).
Charles, please tell me where I once said that people couldn't complain or criticize. I was under the assumption that that (along with actually liking a book) was what book discussions were for. However, when someone is going to hurl the terms shallow and mean-spirited towards the author, I as moderator feel that the poster should be able to back it up with more than an "I posted what I posted, I mean what I mean. Period." Capiche?
Also, I'm fine with taking on the whole collection now instead of waiting for people to finish. I'd like to get a consensus first, though.
Sioux? Melly Mel?? Others??? Have we lost you already? |
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| pedersencr |
| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:04 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 921
Location: New Orleans
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Marj,
Mitty,
I tend to agree with Mitty, because it was the one thing about the story that rubbed my feathers backward on first reading. The opportunity for his mother to offer some moral suasion to the young David was certainly already there in the story, without Sedaris (young or old) even having to explicitly apologize in so many words. Sedaris just chose not to use even that indirect opportunity to provide some minuscule distance from his childhood behavior. In short he got away with it, then, and now he gets to laugh about it to us, or at us, or maybe even with us, but not with me.
(And I further believe the story also indicates that he still believes that way. However, I'm still waiting to hear how much can be said, before this post gets too haphazard.)
Charles |
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| Marilyn |
| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:13 pm |
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Location: Skokie (not a bad movie, btw)
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| I'm not sure a writer needs to apologize. I believe the best thing a writer has to offer us is truth as he or she sees it, through fact OR fiction. That Sedaris writes both should prepare us for a few tall tales. I took the story to be something of a lampoon of himself, and possibly exaggerated. He has shown hatred for a family that, at that age, done him wrong because they were different. I am very curious to see how this early incident may affect his stance in the world once he finds out he is different to the world because he is gay. |
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| Marilyn |
| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:14 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8210
Location: Skokie (not a bad movie, btw)
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| I will pay the book one further compliment (at least at this stage--more stories yet to come). It reminds me of Oliver Sacks' An Anthropologist on Mars. Sacks tells true stories as though they are fiction--they certainly have the air of the fantastic about them because they deal with brain alterations the cause the strangest phenomena to occur. |
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| pedersencr |
| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:25 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: New Orleans
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Ehle,
I see again that there were several posts happening while I was typing slowly after Mitty's post above. So there are now about eighty zillion remarks that I might like to respond to. But to dispose of one, anyway, yes I capiche. I even vershteh. And I even know that there is at least one person over in another forum who would regard your question as extremely condescending and would respond with vulgarity!
However, just please try to remember it was you, ehle, who said "when we get there."
So I'm still waiting for the guidance that will differentiate between a discussion and a brawl, if it is a discussion you wish to have.
Charles |
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| ehle64 |
| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:27 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: NYC; US&A
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| I actually have nowhere to go to respond to that post, Charles. I have no idea what you're trying to say. |
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| pedersencr |
| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:32 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: New Orleans
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| PS Justifications for "shallow" and "mean-spirited" will come. They are easily available. But what's the big deal to you? You're not the author! |
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| pedersencr |
| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:36 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: New Orleans
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ehle64 wrote: I actually have nowhere to go to respond to that post, Charles. I have no idea what you're trying to say.
Ehle,
Well, then I guess we are going to have to work on that aren't we?
Meanwhile, no offense, I am off for a cup of coffee and some exercise.
Charles |
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| Melody |
| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:43 pm |
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Location: TX
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pedersencr wrote: The opportunity for his mother to offer some moral suasion to the young David was certainly already there in the story, without Sedaris (young or old) even having to explicitly apologize in so many words. Sedaris just chose not to use even that indirect opportunity to provide some minuscule distance from his childhood behavior. In short he got away with it, then, and now he gets to laugh about it to us, or at us, or maybe even with us, but not with me.
(And I further believe the story also indicates that he still believes that way.
You beat me to it, Ehle. I quoted Charles' post above with the intention of asking: What are you talking about?? What exactly does Sedaris need to apologize for? Color me dense, I guess.
There was mention earlier of Sedaris' father bashing in the book. I'm almost finished reading and I have yet to find evidence of this. He treats both parents equally in my reading, exposing the good and the not-so-good.
And mom ain't perfect here by any stretch of the imagination. She drinks too much and allows her school-age kids to stay up all hours of the night. She locks them out of the house when it's freezing outside and only comes to get them when she gets a call from someone who almost runs over one of them. |
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| pedersencr |
| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:07 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 921
Location: New Orleans
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Melody:
To begin to answer your direct question, I'll say: there is not a thing in the world that Sedaris or any other artist has to apologize for. There is not a thing they must do in their art. There is not a thing they must not do in their art. There is not a thing they must include, and not a thing they must not include. I hope that is clear so far.
This discussion is not about that question.
And I guess I'll leave it at that for the while, in case anyone wishes to think I disagree with that basic principle of artistic freedom.
Or can't understand what I just said.
Charles |
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| mitty |
| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:11 pm |
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Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 1359
Location: Way Down Yonder.......
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Melody What I found to be so very reprehensible was the very thing you mention in your previous post. He (and his siblings, so they are also at fault) coerced the youngest sibling into lying down in the street "We chose a quiet dip between two hills, a spot where drivers were almost required to skid out of control."p.15. If that is not calculated meanness, I don't know what would qualify. They played upon her vuneralibility and eagerness to please.
That is not an ordinary "kid thing". |
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| mitty |
| Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:15 pm |
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Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 1359
Location: Way Down Yonder.......
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| To continue, I find it disturbing that he feels no sorrow for persecuting his sister in that manner. Charles is right, he does not have to apologize, but it would make him a more sympathetic character. IMO |
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