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mitty
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:28 am Reply with quote
Joined: 02 Aug 2004 Posts: 1359 Location: Way Down Yonder.......
ehle64 wrote:

If you don't want to skip ahead, that's cool too, I probably wouldn't, but, please remember this post when you get there.

And to address an even more harsh point in your post, I find Sedaris far from shallow, and hardly mean-spirited. Believe me, as a fellow gay man, I've known quite a few.



1. Good point, I will.

2. What does being gay have to do with someone being shallow?
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mitty
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:30 am Reply with quote
Joined: 02 Aug 2004 Posts: 1359 Location: Way Down Yonder.......
ehle64 wrote:
mitty wrote:
Ehle
Granted, I have not read the whole book yet, but what I agree with Charles about is the slipshod manner of writing, and the haphazard/unexplained skipping about.


emphasis mine.

I also wanted to point this out. When we think or ruse about our youth, or past, do we do it chronologically? Perhaps once you finish the book the byline will be clearer. It will be an interesting thing to consider once we get there in the discussion.


Not in our private ruminations, but if taking money to write about, yes.
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ehle64
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:09 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 7149 Location: NYC; US&A
mitty wrote:
2. What does being gay have to do with someone being shallow?


Well, the author is a gay man and there was a criticism of him being shallow. I, as moderator, and as a gay man, wanted to note that I have known a LOT of shallow men and that I don't PERSONALLY find Sedaris to be shallow. Why did you even have to ask that question? It seemed awfully untoward and strictly provocative.

mitty wrote:
Not in our private ruminations, but if taking money to write about, yes.


Like I said before, if you still feel this way AFTER you've read the whole book, we'll talk.
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ehle64
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:17 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 7149 Location: NYC; US&A
BTW, I've taken a pretty personal approach to moderating this forum. A lot of what has happened to Sedaris in his youth I can totally relate to. If anyone has a problem with this style of moderating (I truly have nothing else to go by) please take it up with marj.
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mitty
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:18 am Reply with quote
Joined: 02 Aug 2004 Posts: 1359 Location: Way Down Yonder.......
ehle64 wrote:
mitty wrote:
2. What does being gay have to do with someone being shallow?


Well, the author is a gay man and there was a criticism of him being shallow. I, as moderator, and as a gay man, wanted to note that I have known a LOT of shallow men and that I don't PERSONALLY find Sedaris to be shallow. Why did you even have to ask that question? It seemed awfully untoward and strictly provocative.

[/color][/b]


Provocative? Hardly. I am a straight woman, and I have known a lot, a lot of shallow straight women. So what. Ones sexual preferance has nothing to do with ones depth. Frankly, I wondered why you brought it up. Confused
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mitty
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:26 am Reply with quote
Joined: 02 Aug 2004 Posts: 1359 Location: Way Down Yonder.......
ehle64 wrote:
BTW, I've taken a pretty personal approach to moderating this forum. A lot of what has happened to Sedaris in his youth I can totally relate to. If anyone has a problem with this style of moderating (I truly have nothing else to go by) please take it up with marj.


Ehle You seem to me to be doing a fine job moderating the forum. Just don't read more into what anyone says than is actually there. You have asked insightful questions and provoked discussion. But please do not put inuendo into anything I say/write. I say/write what I mean. Period.
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ehle64
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:27 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 7149 Location: NYC; US&A
So, after you post, there is NO room for question or further discussion? I'm confused.
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mitty
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:31 am Reply with quote
Joined: 02 Aug 2004 Posts: 1359 Location: Way Down Yonder.......
ehle64 wrote:
So, after you post, there is NO room for question or further discussion? I'm confused.


Thats not what I said. I said I write what I mean, I do not hedge around a subject. There is usually room for discussion.

Why would you think there is no room for discussion? Confused
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Marj
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:32 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
While everyone takes a huge breath, I'd like to jump in for a moment.

Mitty, if you don't mind I'm going to go back to an earlier post of yours. OK?

Granted, I have not read the whole book yet, but what I agree with Charles about is the slipshod manner of writing, and the haphazard/unexplained skipping about.

I feel a tad responsible for rushing this forum. Perhaps we should have read the entire book before beginning. That said, I do think one has to read more of Sedaris before judging his writing.

But mostly what I dislike is the way he presents himself. The level of manipulative behavior he exhibited as such an early age is not attractive to say the least. And the fact that he presents it without a smige of apology or "well, I was young, and did not know better" attitude. All I've seen so far is a shallow, mean spirited person.

On this I have to respectively disagree. Why should a writer or anyone for that matter, apologize for the mistakes of their youth? If anything I think it takes guts to do so.

And as far as Sedaris being shallow or mean spirited, that's a pretty strong accusation. I've personally never heard anyone accuse him of anything even close to that. Mitty, is this a general opinion or or can you find something in the book to back it up? I guess I'm asking why you feel this way?

I don't know about you but I'm fading. Can we pick this up tomorrow?
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pedersencr
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:02 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 921 Location: New Orleans
Wade,
I'll abide by your "once we get there" in the discussion.
But please do signal when it is OK for us/me to express how disappointed we were with the book. Mine began with the first two stories (and rather along Mitty's lines), but no more til then.
Meanwhile I shall hold my tongue as carefully as that parrot, and do my best to stick only to the things I did like about Sedaris's writing, which are spectacular when they are there.
As for haphazard, that can be supported with page and line cites when the time comes, if one is willing to have this start looking like a scholarly compendium of footnotes. No problem. I know how to do it.
Pretty exciting book it seems,
Charles
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pedersencr
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:14 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 921 Location: New Orleans
Wade,
Marj.

It seems to me I posted too soon, before seeing the subsequent posts.
So are we open for general discussion? Or are we all being nice until we have all read all of the book?
Also, it is a collection of individual stories, so are negative comments about the individual stories appropriate as they occur, or should they also wait until the end?
At the moment I am biting my tongue,
And a lot harder than that parrot,
Charles
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Marj
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:27 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
Charles,

I know you tend to like heavier material. Is there a chance your over analysing? These are humorous essays and as such, haphazard is perfectly appropriate.

Meanwhile I have asked we all pick this up tomorrow. It's 5:30 AM and we're all tired.

G'nite.
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pedersencr
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:43 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 921 Location: New Orleans
Marj,
It is tomorrow for me.
Not all are humorous. Some are offensive.
And I was answering a question about haphazard.
Meanwhile I think my call for two rulings from the chair still stands.
1. Are we waiting for "when the time comes"?
2. Are negative comments on individual stories permitted as we go?
We do have a Chair don't we?

Merely interested in good order,
Charles
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pedersencr
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:49 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 921 Location: New Orleans
Soooo........

A Minnesotan was walking down the road one day and came upon an Iowan walking the other way wearing only one shoe.
"Gee, lost a shoe?
"Nope, found one!"
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Marilyn
Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:32 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 8210 Location: Skokie (not a bad movie, btw)
Well, I just got the book, and I am not the least bit disappointed with Sedaris' writing. The first story knocked me out with its economic, effortless narrative. The imagery of him stuffing his mouth with chocolate out of greed, not need, was a swift and indelible character sketch.

Thank you, Ehle, for recommending this book.

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