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Marilyn
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:15 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 8210 Location: Skokie (not a bad movie, btw)
Some interesting words about Detour from Bright Lights Film Journal:

Quote:
What happens in Detour is rendered entirely through Roberts’ eyes, the action of the flashback consistently interrupted by creepy close-ups of him giving his version of the events. Like many a noir narrator, his reliability is constantly questioned by the film. He’s undercut by both his suspicious behavior in the death of Haskell (if he was really so innocent, why did he take Haskell’s money?) and his constant self-pity and blaming of "fate, or some other force" for what happens. And his attraction to the darkness and nihilism of Vera — why would he pick her (or anyone!) up after his own experience hitchchiking? — undermines his cries of victimhood.

Detour
cost anywhere from $20,000 to $60,000, depending on which account you believe. It was shot in either four or six days, a typical schedule for many of Ulmer’s low-budget films. But it bears his distinctive stamp throughout. For the famous penultimate scene of Vera’s "accidental" murder, the camera seems to crawl inside Roberts’ head as he surveys the room where this happened, with the lens alternately focusing and defocusing on various objects. Even a simple scene like Sue singing is rendered with poverty-row panache with a low dutch angle of Sue backed up by three musicians seen only in shadow. Forced perspectives and expressionist motifs appear throughout, reinforcing the script’s vision of an unpredictable, ultimately terrifying world.

Actor Tom Neal’s career, like Ulmer’s, was restricted mostly to B films, but unlike Ulmer, Neal wound up in similar straits to Roberts. In an eerie life-imitates-art episode, he went to prison in 1965 for six years for killing his third wife. (Like Roberts, he claimed the killing was accidental.) Neal’s knockabout charm, his air of wounded virility, and his skill at rendering screenwriter Goldsmith’s stylized, rapid-fire dialogue make him one of noir’s most memorable beleaguered males, even if he does appear duplicitous or delusional in the end. Ulmer has spoken fondly of Al Roberts ("I was always in love with … the main character, a boy who plays piano in Greenwich Village and really wants to be a decent pianist," he told Bogdanovich), and no wonder. Roberts is easily read as a double for Ulmer himself — both men artists living a marginalized existence in straitened circumstances (Ulmer in B films, Roberts as a classical pianist in a dive). The great Ann Savage only appears in the second half of the film, but as Vera she dominates every scene, controlling Roberts and mesmerizing the viewer with her commanding stare and hard, sharp words. Savage also manages to give this harpy a human side when she makes it clear that she’s dying of tuberculosis. Savage appeared only sporadically in film in the 1940s and early ‘50s, but her reputation is secure on the basis of the unforgettable Vera.


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Ghulam
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:58 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 4742 Location: Upstate NY
Marilyn, thanks for that very iinformative and insightful piece from the Bright Lights Film Journal. Ulmer, the director of low-budget noirs, was a very interesting and somewhat mysterious figure. He was an apprentice of the great Murnau. The entire movie was filmed on just two locations.
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dlhavard
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:51 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 1352 Location: Detroit (where the slow are run over)
Here's a creepy little bit about Tom Neal I pulled off the IMDB

Tom Neal is best remembered for his off-screen exploits, which involved scandal, mayhem and a charge of murder. Before his 1938 screen debut in MGM's Out West with the Hardys (1938), Tom Neal had been a member of the boxing team at Northwestern University, debuted on the Broadway stage in 1935 and received a law degree from Harvard in 1938. Throughout the 1940's and 1950's, he appeared mostly as tough guys in Hollywood low-budgeters. In 1951, in a dispute over the affections of actress Barbara Payton, he beat up his rival, the actor Franchot Tone. The former boxer Neal gave Tone a smashed cheekbone, a broken nose and a brain concussion. Hollywood film studios essentially blackballed Neal thereafter.

He was brought to trial in 1965 for the murder of his wife Gale, who it was determined had been shot to death with a .45-caliber bullet to the back of her head. Prosecutors sought the death penalty for Tom Neal in California's cyanide-gas chamber. The trial jury, however, convicted him only of "involuntary manslaughter", for which he was sentenced to 10 years in jail.

On 7 December 1971, he was released on parole from imprisonment, having served exactly six years to the day. Eight months later, Tom Neal was dead of heart failure.

Sometimes Truth is stranger than Fiction.............
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bocce
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:50 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 2428
i hate to be yambuish about this (not that there's anything wrong with THAT), but what's the next film...

it's getting a bit barren in here. actually, what is the rest of the agenda for this forum? i'd suggest maybe a couple more examples (max), a wrap as to whether we're dealing with a style or an actual genre and then move on to another topic.
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Ghulam
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:20 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 4742 Location: Upstate NY
Bocce. it is Night of the Hunter starting Monday. Then the grand finale the following week with The Big Heat.
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Rod
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:41 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 Dec 2004 Posts: 2944 Location: Lithgow, Australia
I was watching a kind of proto-noir last night called Manpower, directed by Raoul Walsh and featuring an odd cast playing its characters who are roughnecks and chippies: it seems a follow-up to Walsh's They Drive By Night, being the same sort of melodrama-amongst-the-working-class deal. In this you've got the marvelous sight of Edward G. Robinson playing Hank McHenry, a hard-drinking, hard-dancing, hard-punching member of an electrical wire repair team, who despite being about a half-foot shorter than everyone else is always leaping in boots and all. George Raft is his best friend Johnny. Hank is badly injured on the job, left with a limp, is promoted to foreman of the team and finds himsef bored and overpaid and missing with the ladies who now nickname him "Gimpy". Johnny meanwhile goes with an aging European member of the team they call Pop to pick up Pop's daughter who's getting out from a year in the joint for pick-pocketing - enter Marlene Dietrich, in the most gloriously non-aristocractic part ever; here you get to see her without make-up, work in a clip-joint, sing, even cook breakfast done up like Donna Reed. Raft is hugely unimpressed, but Hank forms an attachment to her, sneeing another life victim, and later proposes marriage. Raft is better than usual, and he has one great encounter with Barton McClane as the clip-joint boss who gets a much-deserved slug, Raft subsequently retreating from a nightclub in style, wielding a broken chair leg, "With this I could bat all night!" From there the film stampedes towards a torrid emotional climax pulsing with 40,000 volts worth of action! Er, well, it's a very lumpy film actually; the script is terrific, littered with gloriously cynical dialogue in which every character is so hardboiled they could cut diamonds (the waiter in the diner is priceless; Eve Arden cracks wise with flair), but it's also stuffed with silly hijinx by the gang, especially by Alan Hale, and the story eventually develops in a disappointingly standard fashion. But the pace never flags and though inferior to They Drive By Night it is like that film a fascinating cross-over between '30s social realism and the oncming noir genre.

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censored-03
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:29 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 3058 Location: Gotham, Big Apple, The Naked City
Nice writing Rod..Deitrich is good in that one.

Too bad our last flick couldn't have been the more upbeat The Big Sleep instead of The Big Heat (not my favorite Lang noir). After 5 months of noir including the Film Forum fest in NYC and my TCM addiction I am starting to think it is style over genre and more than ever I think Bogie's got style baby! So do all the dames in The Big Sleep..but he's too busy falling for his real life spouse to notice.

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bocce
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:09 am Reply with quote
Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 2428
i can't believe we're doing NIGHT OF THE HUNTER in lieu of THE KILLERS...

NoTH was mostly included at the behest of marc who has yet to make a plausible case for its inclusion. several of us (billy and marilyn come to mind) don't think it's noir in the least.

on the other hand, i can't see a discussion of noir without THE KILLERS which is almost definitive.
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billyweeds
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:02 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20618 Location: New York City
on the other hand, i can't see a discussion of noir without THE KILLERS which is almost definitive.

This makes a lot of sense. Though The Killers is not a particular favorite of mine, there is no gainsaying that it is quintessential noir, on the level of Out of the Past as one of the noir icons.
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jeremy
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 12:07 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 6794 Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
If everybody's still having fun, fine. However, I'd like to suggest we put some life into this forum by givng it to the end of the month, say, when it will be replaced by another the content of which is to be agreed.

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Ghulam
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 2:05 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 4742 Location: Upstate NY
As I understand it, this forum ends on March 27th. The last week i.e. the week of The Big Heat, will also be an occassion for a general discussion of noir, including definitional issues, and we should be able to bring up movies such as The Big Sleep or The Killers to make some points or for illustration purposes.
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Marj
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:16 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
Ghulam,

I was unaware we had set an end date for this forum. And I agree that there are a few films that really should be seen before it ends. The Killers and The Big Sleep should be required viewing.

Keep in mind that The Blanches and the Awards hoopla took many of us away from noir viewing. Sometimes when there is a temporary stop, it's hard to get started again. And a movie like Detour, while it is clearly noir, hardly helps.

I saw Detour a few months ago and was more fascinated by its weirdness than anything else. It's hardly a film I would recommend to someone who is just beginning an examination of film noir.

Btw, for those just joining us TCM is having a evening of all noir, beginning with The Lady from Shanghai at 8PM, followed by The Big Sleep, Double Indemnity, The Postman Always Rings Twice and finally Out of the Past.
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Ghulam
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:57 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 4742 Location: Upstate NY
Marj, if you look at the list of movies we drew up at the beginning of this forum and give one week to each movie, the forum should be ending on March 20th. However since people wanted at least one Lang movie included, we added The Big Heat, extending the forum to March 27th. If any alteration in this schedule is supported by at least five members, it will be adopted, provided those five members promise to infuse new life into this forum by their enthusiastic participation.
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Marj
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:36 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
Ghulam,

I am severely math challenged so far be for me to argue an end date. I just didn't remember one ... Ah, memory: another one of my bugaboos.
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billyweeds
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:27 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20618 Location: New York City
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/03/13/PKG4OBM86G1.DTL&type=movies

Here's a piece on Ulmer, including the news that Ann Savage will be appearing at a festival showing of Detour in San Francisco this month. If I were there, I'd be there.
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