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ehle64
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:14 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 7149 Location: NYC; US&A
Would Borgnine be this "clown" in FHtE??

And what about The Search? I don't remember anyone specific to this theory.
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bocce
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:31 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 2428
ehle...

what i'm referring to is a character or group of characters so out of the loop in terms of either another (generally the protagonist's) character's sympathies/ motivations or in context to the action as a whole as to further draw attention to either that other character or circumstance.

i would more characterise the members of the boxing team as the fools in FHTE and wendell corey/aline mac mahnon as the two foils in "the search".
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bocce
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 2:46 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 2428
this is kind of why i didn't want to get into this too heavily. in the old european literary tradition the concept of the clown or fool didn't carry the same pejoritive value that is assumed today. we're not necessarily talking about morons or idiot savants or madmen.

it was more based on information to act upon or lack thereof. sometimes the fool had more knowledge than the king just as in greek tragedy, the chorus generally has a better feel for what's actually happening (or going to happen) than the characters. sometimes the fool is completely oblivious as to what is going on around him (jack elam in "high noon"). but generally, this archetype falls somewhere in between which in turn makes him even more interesting.
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Ghulam
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 3:44 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 4742 Location: Upstate NY
Bocce, a bumbling but good-hearted steward may well have been the intent of the novel (which I did not read), but the way it came across to me was a character who is about to emerge with greater clarity, but never does.
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billyweeds
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 3:47 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20618 Location: New York City
The Sundowners has a lot of virtues: wonderful acting by Mitchum and Kerr (check out the silent scene where she compares herself to a well-turned-out woman if you think her perf didn't rate an Oscar nom), a lovely, leisurely pace, a fantastic sense of place, and--most of all, forever, and uniquely--the most incredible photography of animals I have ever seen in a movie. (Yes, Marilyn, "hyperbole" may be my middle name, but sometimes hyperbole is accurate.) The scenes of sheep herding in this film are like no other nature photography I know--certainly not in any fiction film. The sheep appear to be one billowing wave moving over the land. This is not incidental to the story, moreover. Without this beautiful sense of the sheep, Mitchum's love for his nomadic life would make little or no sense.
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billyweeds
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 3:48 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20618 Location: New York City
BTW Mitchum and Kerr's son was played by Michael Anderson Jr., son of the director of Around the World in 80 Days.
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mo_flixx
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 4:47 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
billyweeds wrote:
BTW Mitchum and Kerr's son was played by Michael Anderson Jr., son of the director of Around the World in 80 Days.


Thanks. So that's how he got the part!
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mo_flixx
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 4:48 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
billyweeds wrote:
The Sundowners has a lot of virtues: wonderful acting by Mitchum and Kerr (check out the silent scene where she compares herself to a well-turned-out woman if you think her perf didn't rate an Oscar nom), a lovely, leisurely pace, a fantastic sense of place, and--most of all, forever, and uniquely--the most incredible photography of animals I have ever seen in a movie. (Yes, Marilyn, "hyperbole" may be my middle name, but sometimes hyperbole is accurate.) The scenes of sheep herding in this film are like no other nature photography I know--certainly not in any fiction film. The sheep appear to be one billowing wave moving over the land. This is not incidental to the story, moreover. Without this beautiful sense of the sheep, Mitchum's love for his nomadic life would make little or no sense.


Re: Kerr & the mirror. Yes, I "got it" and thought it was a bit on the heavy-handed side.
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mo_flixx
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 4:52 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
Re: Ustinov.

My feeling is that he was slightly miscast. He wasn't physically right for the part. Otherwise I liked him.
I had trouble imagining him being even a smidge rugged or having much luck in his flirtation with the Glynnis Johns' character.
Perhaps that was intentional, but IMO he should have been more of a brawny type gone to seed.
I can't come up with a good alternative, but I'm sure there are a number of character actors in the Ford oeuvre who would fill the bill.
I felt the only perfectly cast character was Mitchum, who was right on.
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mo_flixx
Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 10:25 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
I've finally come up with an idea for the casting of the Ustinov character.

I think someone like a late 30-ish Oliver Reed would have been just perfect. He had the brawns, the bod gone to seed quality, and the unconventional attractiveness to bring off this particular character.
Too bad he was too young for it when THE SUNDOWNERS was made.
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billyweeds
Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 12:40 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20618 Location: New York City
the most incredible photography of animals I have ever seen in a movie

No comment? Okay, whatever.
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ehle64
Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 12:43 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 7149 Location: NYC; US&A
Nobody cared to make a copy of The Sundowners for me. Sorry.
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bocce
Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 4:00 am Reply with quote
Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 2428
billy...

i agree that the cinematography is very well done but apparently didn't make that much of an impact on academy voters who didn't even nominate it in this catagory.

ehle...

i offered to mail out my copy to anyone who wanted it on the 25th. i think that's when you were out of town. if you want it, contact me.
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mo_flixx
Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 8:11 am Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 12533
Bocce -
Let me know if you'd like me to mail you my copy on VHS.
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bocce
Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 10:33 am Reply with quote
Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 2428
thanks, mo, but i already have a copy of "the sundowners". that's what i was offering to ehle or anyone else if he doesn't want it.
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