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| Marc |
 Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:45 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 8424
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Making records is a collaborative art. Without George Martin would The Beatles' Sgt. Pepper been a masterpiece? Frank Sinatra would have gone nowhere without big bands, great songwriters and arrangers. Dylan's comeback was significantly helped by the talent of Daniel Lanois. And without Phil Spector, would The Ronettes , Ike and Tina, The Crystals, The Righteous Brothers ever had strings of hits?
The idea that Madonna's success is based on choosing the right collaborators puts her in the company and many many fine music artists.
Madonna is at the center of whatever occurs in her career. It is an art to put these performances and recordings together. Collaboration is an art.
Where De Niro be without Scorsese? |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:47 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 8424
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Where would De Niro be without Scorsese?
Meeting the Fockers or hanging with Rocky and Bullwinkle. |
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| chillywilly |
| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:03 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8250
Location: Salt Lake City
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Marc wrote: And the Kaballah ain't Scientology or some junk religion. I've read some books on the Kaballah and found them very challenging, difficult.
Yeah... comparison wise, Madonna is no Tom Cruise.
I don't really have a problem with musicians and religious beliefs. It's the over exposure of it. And as you pointed out, Marc, Madonna had some early excitement about her new found religion and it seemed to get more press than I expected.
And you bring up a good point about George Harrison and a lot of their songs that he contributed to both the Beatles and his solo work. But for some reason, it didn't seem like it was being shoved down our throats is some sort of acceptance format. Plus is was good music.
I think when something like personal religious beliefs become larger than the artist and their collective works, that's when I notice the over-the-top exposure. |
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Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
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| chillywilly |
| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:08 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8250
Location: Salt Lake City
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Madonna's collaborators have changed over the years. William Orbit had a huge influence on her work for sometime.
And a groups or artists success owes a lot to the producer or songwriters.
I always have a bit more repsect for an artist that also pens their own songs, but it doesn't discount the talent of an artist that looks to others in a collborative effort for songwriting credits. |
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Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
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| ehle64 |
| Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:49 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 7149
Location: NYC; US&A
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chillywilly wrote: I always have a bit more repsect for an artist that also pens their own songs, but it doesn't discount the talent of an artist that looks to others in a collborative effort for songwriting credits.
Madonna has written or co-written everything she's put out. Madonna-specific wise. She has done covers, most notably "Fever" and "I Want You". If you have a career span as long as hers, wouldn't you want to work with different and talented producers of the time that are feeling your songs? People can go on and on for days about how untalented an actress she is, but to say she has no talent is incredibly dumbfounding for me.
Thx for the reminder about the A/C, mr. b. The last 3 times I saw Mo @ da Garden I was covered in sweat when I left. I think that's just par for the course of a 2 hour and 20 minute show of predominantly dance hits and classics. I have tickets for Monday night and a new Salvage™ T that will hopefully be dripping wet afterwards. |
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It truly disappoints me when people do something for you via no prompt of your own and then use it as some kind of weapon against you at a later time and place. It is what it is. |
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| jeremy |
| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:19 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6794
Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
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| I think Marc's spiriteddefence of Madonna hit a number of nails on the head, not least the different standards used to judge her as against successful male performers. |
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I am angry, I am ill, and I'm as ugly as sin.
My irritability keeps me alive and kicking.
I know the meaning of life, it doesn't help me a bit.
I know beauty and I know a good thing when I see it. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 10:29 am |
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Hey I compared her career to The Monkees. They are male.
I think her voice is weak, her dancing is average and her personna is ridiculous. Her talent for production is obvious. I haven't heard any of her recent stuff. Her big hits from years past I either found unimpressive of just bad. Her constant attempt to be outrageous is just stupid.
But hey, if you like her, I won't hold it against you. |
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| chillywilly |
| Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:30 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8250
Location: Salt Lake City
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ehle64 wrote: chillywilly wrote: I always have a bit more repsect for an artist that also pens their own songs, but it doesn't discount the talent of an artist that looks to others in a collborative effort for songwriting credits.
Well, i wasn't the one that said she had no talent... only that she's had a few bombs in her career, which isn't to say that's a bad thing... pretty norm for most artists.
I knew she had written or co-written her work.
Enjoy the show and hope it's not too sweat induced. |
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Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
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| Mr. Brownstone |
| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:54 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2450
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I think Madonna's alleged outlandishness & daring spoke more about an incredibly uptight culture than it did her willingness to be brazen. I don't know if Madonna really made any socio-political inroads throughout her career, a knock that is a double-edged sword.
Most artists don't make socio-political inroads through their efforts (it's tough enough just to get heard, seen & earn a buck), so Madonna shouldn't be held to a different standard. Then again, I get sick of people telling me how socially significant Madonna is, when her made talent does seem to be assembling the proper talent around her to popularize a genre, form, sound, whatever. I don't know if that's opportunistic, but I think Madonna's chief contribution to musical culture is the ultimate triumph of style over substance, and she's one smart cookie for remaining relevant for this long.
But I do think she's a helluva dancer. I've slammed her in these fora, and justifiably, for being a terrible actress, but she's still one of the most iconic personas in pop music history. She's had quite a few misfires over the years - La Isla Bonita, Don't Cry for Me Argentina, Papa Don't Preach (c'mon - the song is awful), her cover of American Pie, that rap on American Life is the worst thing ever recorded in the history of sound, worse than the tape of that guy getting eaten alive by a bear.
However, for me, Madonna remains entrenched of in my regard as both a breathing nostalgic monument to my youth (every guy my age slow danced with a girl to Crazy for You at least once), and a legitimately enjoyable artist (Ray of Light is one of the 20 best singles of the 90s).
Great Madonna: Ray of Light, Material Girl, Live to Tell, What It Feels Like for a Girl, Get into the Groove
Good Madonna: Vogue, Like a Virgin, Crazy for You, Borderline, Lucky Star, Burnin' Up, Like a Prayer, Cherish, Express Yourself
Mediocre Madonna: the entire period between Vogue & Rayof Light |
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"My name is Gunnery Sergeant Major Highway. And I have drunk more beer, pissed more blood, banged more quiff and knocked more skulls than all you numbnuts put together." - Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge |
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| Mr. Brownstone |
| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:59 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2450
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Oh, I also dig Dress You up in My Love.
I think that makes me an honorary gay. |
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"My name is Gunnery Sergeant Major Highway. And I have drunk more beer, pissed more blood, banged more quiff and knocked more skulls than all you numbnuts put together." - Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge |
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| jeremy |
| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:35 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 6794
Location: Derby, England and Hamilton, New Zealand (yes they are about 12,000 miles apart)
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| It certainly doesn't make you an honoury Gary. |
_________________
I am angry, I am ill, and I'm as ugly as sin.
My irritability keeps me alive and kicking.
I know the meaning of life, it doesn't help me a bit.
I know beauty and I know a good thing when I see it. |
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| Mr. Brownstone |
| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:45 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2450
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Marc,
DeNiro got a screen test & serious consideration for The Godfather, and obviously got cast in the sequel - Coppola flicks.
I see your point, but I'm not buying the analogy. Madonna is not pop music's DeNiro. |
_________________
"My name is Gunnery Sergeant Major Highway. And I have drunk more beer, pissed more blood, banged more quiff and knocked more skulls than all you numbnuts put together." - Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge |
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| Mr. Brownstone |
| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:06 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2450
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Best Singles of the First Half of 2006
1. Hands Open, Snow Patrol
2. It's Beginning to Get to Me, Snow Patrol
3. The Adventure, Angels & Airwaves
4. You're All I Have, Snow Patrol
5. The Gift, Angels & Airwaves
6. Headlights on Dark Roads, Snow Patrol
7. Stigmata, Slave to the System
8. Don't Speak (I Came to Make a Bang), Eagles of Death Metal
9. In My Arms, Mylo
10. Neon, Clearlake
11. Crazy, Alanis Morrisette
12. Check on It, Beyonce & Slim Thug
13. The War, Angels & Airwaves
14. Big Wave, Pearl Jam
15. The Blues, Guns N Roses
16. Marker in the Sand, Pearl Jam
17. Big Wave, Pearl Jam
18. Rooftoops (Liberation Broadcast), Lostprophets
19. Nth Degree, Morningwood
20. Ooh La La, Goldfrapp
21.True School, Coldcut
22. Move Along, All-American Rejects
23. Madagascar, Guns N Roses
24. Unemployable, Pearl Jam
25. Crazy, Gnarls Barkley
26. Love Rockets, Clear Static
27. World Wide Suicide, Pearl Jam
28. Number One, Goldfrapp
29. Is It Any Wonder, Keane
30. Don't Wait, Dashboard Confessional
31. Killing Moon, Grant Lee Phillips
32. One Man Wrecking Machine, Guster
33. Get Together, Madonna
34. You Got Me, VHS or Beta
35. Mustang Nismo, Bryan Tyler & Slash
36. Crazy Bitch, Buckcherry
37. Faster Kill Pussycat, Paul Oakenfold featuring Brittany Murphy
38. Don't Know Why You Stay, Essex Green
39. Supermassive Black Hole, Muse
40. Girl That Speaks No Words, Infadels |
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"My name is Gunnery Sergeant Major Highway. And I have drunk more beer, pissed more blood, banged more quiff and knocked more skulls than all you numbnuts put together." - Clint Eastwood, Heartbreak Ridge |
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| chillywilly |
| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:01 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8250
Location: Salt Lake City
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I'm with you on the Snow Patrol and the Muse.
And the new Pearl Jam is doing it's best to grow on me.
And of course, GnR.... all thanks to you, brownstone.
The Gnarls Barkley is having a hard time setting in. I like Danger Mouse, but I guess I need to hear other songs besides "Crazy" |
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Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
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| chillywilly |
| Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:03 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8250
Location: Salt Lake City
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Mr. Brownstone wrote: 36. Crazy Bitch, Buckcherry
Oh, and forgot this one. The video is pretty cool, too. This is a great song and one that I'm sure, is getting lots of airplay at strip clubs all over. |
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Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
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