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< Television ~ It's Not TV -- It's HBO! |
| pedersencr |
 Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 2:30 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 921
Location: New Orleans
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Lissa,
Thanks for your utter honesty. In a sense I'm almost sorry I asked, the list is so long  . I see that I would have had many moments of dismay in previous seasons also.
I asked because my suspicious mind was wondering whether it might have been some new twist that the producers thought up for this particlular season, perhaps to jazz up the show or, Heaven forfend, beef up a declining audience.
Your answer tells me not, but now I have to figure out how to handle this newly dismal information. I guess for my peace of mind, it was a question I shouldn't have asked.
Sincerely,
Charles |
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| lissa |
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 2:51 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Charles,
The list I mentioned is nowhere near the list of other murders/crimes which have happened on the show. Honestly, even as a woman, I don't take this as a major turn-off from the series. And I'd venture a guess that the female audience is just as numerous as the males. So while it's sad thinking of the list of women against whom crimes have been committed, it is just accepted as a fact of the show. It isn't reality, it might be based in reality, but how many murders, rapes, batterings, emotional abuses, etc etc etc take place over the course of an HOUR in this world, against women, men, children, animals, that we don't know? We can't have pathos for everyone, as difficult as it might be to accept reality. Thing is, don't hold a show in contempt or dismay because of its content, no matter how realistic or reality-based it is - especially when that content provides riveting viewing.
One thing I might mention is that The Sopranos doesn't portray these crimes as condoned. We know, and feel, while watching them, that it is wrong and we feel the moral justice. That's an important thing to remember, because it isn't trying to redeem the criminals. |
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Statistically, 6 out of 7 dwarfs aren't happy. |
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| Melody |
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 4:06 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 2242
Location: TX
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Laura wrote: When I saw Adriana taken out the other night, I remembered why I didn't flock to this show at the beginning.
Hey Laura! Welcome to the fray. I'm glad you're here.
When Adriana first got busted by the FBI, I knew at some point she was destined to get whacked. I say this not because she's a woman, or weak, or a minor player, or that she has no respect, but because she ratted them out. After all, they whacked Big Pussy for the same offense, and Tony absolutely adored him.
As I was driving today, I pondered why in the world Adriana thought Christopher would choose her over Tone. I guess she was so worn down by drugs, lack of sleep, severe colitis and stress that she just wanted it to be over. That shot of her driving in the car alone, with her pink suitcase in the back, I cheered! -- only to realize it was not meant to be. Things play out in a demented, sad, but yet rigid code of logic in "The Sopranos." According to this code, Adriana doesn't get away and Christopher doesn't WANT to get away, no matter how much he loves her. and it's a testament to the incredible writing that we would dare to have a tiny spark of hope that Adriana (or even, yes, Christopher) would break free, make a run for it.
Laura wrote: So is that realistic or misogynistic scriptwriting? A little of both, I'd say.
I agree -- although to tell this story as successfully as these writers have done, "realistic" and "misogynistic" go hand in hand. And you gotta admit, it's a fascinating mixture. |
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My heart told my head: This time, no. |
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| pedersencr |
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 6:31 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 921
Location: New Orleans
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Lissa,
Please, please. I thought I was at pains to indicate that I don't hold the show in contempt, for any reason. It is a great show, no matter what my personal reactions may be. I recognize that (many) others have different reactions and I am comfortable with that -- part of the marching to a different drummer thing for some years now.
Sincerely,
Charles |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 6:35 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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| Charles et al--There has never ever EVER been a more shocking treatment of rape on screen than Jennifer Melfi's attack in the parking garage. And of all the strongest moments in the history of the show, none has ever been stronger than Lorraine Bracco's unforgettable "No" at the end of that episode. No explanation to those who haven't seen it. Just two words: see it. |
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| lissa |
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 6:47 pm |
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Charles - no, I didn't think you held the show in contempt, per se, but your reaction seemed - to me - a little overblown. There's no need for dismay, this show just does it the way it is. We may not agree with it, but in my opinion, it strengthens the series for its honesty and reality. Your post says you have to figure out how to handle this new information - what is there to handle? The Sopranos is an experience we've come to enjoy as one that will take us from smiles to horror in the same show, sometimes. And you mention that you'd have had many hours of dismay if you'd seen previous seasons; I can honestly say that if this season is one in which you are NOT experiencing that, you wouldn't with the others either. It just continues to get better as the time goes on, but it began as superb, and went up from there.
Sorry if I'm sounding defensive of the show, but you're taking, out of context, one aspect of it and making it too important. Sure, the view of women on the series is important, but if we accept that this is the way it is, the way it has always been, in the culture and the lifestyle, it should not become an issue of and by itself.
As was mentioned by Mel, the minute Adriana turned informant for the FBI last season, we all pretty much knew she was done for. We hoped differently but it was a given. So her death should not have come as a surprise as much as we willed it not to happen.
But for myself, seeing the dancers at the Bada Bing week in and week out, seeing them perform sexual favors for the men, it's not something I take offense to, and it isn't something that should change on the show. It's their milieu. And to see it any differently would take away from the authenticity of the show.
Hope this helps! |
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Statistically, 6 out of 7 dwarfs aren't happy. |
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| pedersencr |
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 6:50 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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Location: New Orleans
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| lissa |
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 6:51 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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billy - I agree. And I think that much of the horror of that is that till then, she was not seen by us as a target, or even as a sexual being, despite Tony's evergrowing attraction for her. But it was the visceral, relentless rape, shown completely on camera, that will stand out in my mind.
Her "No" at the end..? You have no idea how many times I've seen that episode and said, "oh, come ON, TELL him!" I hoped that somehow, the rape would not be lost in history, and that Tony would get the chance to squash the rapist like a bug. It's the power of the woman in her refusal to tell that screams, "Survivor".
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 7:24 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Location: New York City
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| Something that is guaranteed to get my blood boiling is when people start in on "When is Tony gonna shtup Melfi?" The very idea that David Chase would go there is such anathema to me, and so out of reality, that it just makes me crazy. Some people WANT it to happen, and that angers me even more. |
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| lissa |
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 8:21 pm |
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billy,
Tony has always had the attraction for Jennifer, but it has been said and analyzed by us, and by others, as to his patient-doctor transference. He wanted more, as we saw earlier this season, and Jen did absolutely the right thing. Just as Tony and Adriana would have been tragic, so would Tony and Jen be wrong. Those people who want it are only looking for sensationalism, not the natural segue of the plot. |
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Statistically, 6 out of 7 dwarfs aren't happy. |
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| McBain |
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 11:37 pm |
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Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1987
Location: Boston
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| This past episode of Sopranos was great. I kept saying to Jen through the whole episode, "there will be nothing from here on out but a world of pain". The show only has 2 episodes now, and a half season later for Tony's spiral to be complete. World of pain. |
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| shannon |
| Posted: Wed May 26, 2004 11:56 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 1628
Location: NC
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| One episode. No episode this week. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 6:24 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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| My wife got very depressed after this week's episode. She said (not about the end of the series but about Tony's world), "It's the beginning of the end." This depressed both of us way more than is healthy for two intelligent people to feel about a group of fictional characters. But there it is. "The Sopranos" will do that to you. |
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| lissa |
| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 12:08 pm |
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| My husband wanted to watch it again last night, but I couldn't. I, too, am very disturbed by this episode, and you're right, it isn't just Adriana's death, it's what it implies. And yes, billy, it is very depressing, and just a little disturbing that this is fiction, but I got over that very quickly when books and films began affecting me. After seeing The Deer Hunter for the first and only time I ever saw it, I cried myself to sleep. In reading The Deep End of the Ocean i had to stop to sob at certain passages (same with the recent Jodi Picoult novel, My Sister's Keeper). So when something like this - a 5-season-long series, with the intensity of a good film every week - becomes this involved, it doesn't bother me as much as perhaps it should. It is, however, testament to the power of writers and actors. |
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Statistically, 6 out of 7 dwarfs aren't happy. |
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| john s |
| Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 5:05 pm |
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This episode left me depressed also. After seeing it again, I wish Adriana would've just taken the wrap and did the time, she would've had it made in prison, what with being a mafia mistress and all.
I didn't want to see her marry Christopher and maybe when she got out he'd be on to the next one. He is mean and has anger issues and his beatings of her made me sick.
Imperioli is a good actor though, notice when he keeps repeating, "What are we gonna do?" over and over, and his crying scene a few episodes ago. |
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