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Mr. Brownstone
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 8:27 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 2450
chills:

"You know, I've never really sat down and listened to that album from start to finish. Cause if I would have, I would have caught the Soundgarden song."

I skip most of it except for Hair of the Dog and Ain't It Fun.

"As a big Soundgarden fan, they are one of the better grunge bands..."

They're the best of the grunge bands, as far as I'm concerned. After that it's sort of a wash. Pearl Jam has the best body of work, Nirvana has the largest cultural cache, and being a metal fan, I always went nuts for Cantrell's sick guitar work.

It's weird, though, how all three bands that survived Cobain reached their height the same year he died. Pearl Jam released Ten, Vs. and Vitalogy in '91, '92 & '94, respectively, Alice did Facelift, Sap, Dirt and Jar of Flies in '91, '92, '92 again, and '94, and Soundgarden did Badmotorfinger ('91) and Superunknown ('94).

Yet after Cobain's death, all three bands seemed to erode slightly. Pearl Jam would only release one album that I thought was even close to being a whole good album ('98's Yield), but otherwise have released a series of albums that consist of one or two brilliant songs and a bunch of failed experiments.

Alice in Chains' self-titled album was a disappointment; there's only so often you can wallow in the muck, I guess, and Staley's tragic drug problems would eventually drown the band.

'Garden would release one more album, which was fine, but certainly a far cry from their earlier two albums, both of which would rank in my top 10 of the decade. I look at the day I heard they broke up as they day I officially became uncool.

"Alice in Chains still takes the top spot for me... "

When I hear We Die Young, Nutshell or Dam That River, I'm inclined to agree. When I hear Grind or God Am, I'm not.

"...but Cornell's vocals on songs like "Full on Kevin's Mom" and "Jesus Christ Pose" were raw and out of control, but intese at the same time."

Chris Cornell is the best singer in the history of rock. And if all anyone thinks he can do is scream, I advise them to listen to the masterful Temple of the Dog again. He's beautiful and ferocious.

"Axl could very well channel that Cornell side of him and make it work."

Could. I don't know if Axl can even sing Paradise City anymore. I've noticed on the last couple of live bootlegs he doesn't play it, which leads me to believe his vocal problems are extensive and for real.

"Anyone have Kim Thyall's phone number to send to Axl?"

Kim Thayill slays. He and Cantrell were the best guitar players of the era. Cobain wasn't really all that much of a guitar player; was a much better songwriter. Most other musicians didn't think Cobain could play at all, which Cobain defenders might argue was the point.

"Of course, they would have to find a new drummer. I doubt that Matt Cameron wants to give up his place in Pearl Jam."

Pearl Jam must be a pretty good gig to have. They've pretty much reached their career aspiration of becoming Neil Young. There's very little radio hit pressure, and they pretty much can do whatever the fuck they want on an album because they have a solid core following that also turns out in droves for their live shows.

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censored-03
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:42 am Reply with quote
Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 3058 Location: Gotham, Big Apple, The Naked City
daffy, thanks for the link. Fucking terrible thing. Dimebag's father was a Nashville songwriter as I recall. Darrell could play mandolin, banjo and guitar masterfully before he was 13. I'm sorry for everyone.
macca thank you for the link. I'll be listening.
Marc a mix of Beefheart and Kinks doesn't sound too bad. Interesting.

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chillywilly
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:14 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 8250 Location: Salt Lake City
Mr. Brownstone wrote:
They're the best of the grunge bands, as far as I'm concerned. After that it's sort of a wash. Pearl Jam has the best body of work, Nirvana has the largest cultural cache, and being a metal fan, I always went nuts for Cantrell's sick guitar work.

Soundgarden has been the most diverse of the grunge bands. With Cornell's vocal range, their music was recognizable, but never repeated.

Cantrell's solo work is very AiC-like, as it should be. But different enough and still showing his obvious talent.


Mr. Brownstone wrote:
It's weird, though, how all three bands that survived Cobain reached their height the same year he died. Pearl Jam released Ten, Vs. and Vitalogy in '91, '92 & '94, respectively, Alice did Facelift, Sap, Dirt and Jar of Flies in '91, '92, '92 again, and '94, and Soundgarden did Badmotorfinger ('91) and Superunknown ('94).

Interesting point... i never noticed that before about the time line. Almost like after Cobain was gone, they figured grunge was done. BTW, Badmotorfinger is one of my fav. albums from that time... much more than Nevermind was.


Mr. Brownstone wrote:
... Pearl Jam would only release one album that I thought was even close to being a whole good album ('98's Yield), but otherwise have released a series of albums that consist of one or two brilliant songs and a bunch of failed experiments.

Yield was a great album, IMO. It's one of my fav. of Pearl Jam.


Mr. Brownstone wrote:
Alice in Chains' self-titled album was a disappointment; there's only so often you can wallow in the muck, I guess, and Staley's tragic drug problems would eventually drown the band.

That was pretty sad to see... Staley pretty much getting consumed by his smack.


Mr. Brownstone wrote:
When I hear We Die Young, Nutshell or Dam That River, I'm inclined to agree. When I hear Grind or God Am, I'm not.

I agree.


Mr. Brownstone wrote:
Chris Cornell is the best singer in the history of rock. And if all anyone thinks he can do is scream, I advise them to listen to the masterful Temple of the Dog again. He's beautiful and ferocious.

TotD was a great project and really had the ability to show how Cornell's vocals were tops.


Mr. Brownstone wrote:
Could. I don't know if Axl can even sing Paradise City anymore. I've noticed on the last couple of live bootlegs he doesn't play it, which leads me to believe his vocal problems are extensive and for real.

Axl has lost it, IMO. He *could* be better, but this whole Chinese Democracy has taken over his talent. Wish he would focus more on getting himself together than trying to release a still-born album that should have been released years ago.


Mr. Brownstone wrote:
Kim Thayill slays. He and Cantrell were the best guitar players of the era. Cobain wasn't really all that much of a guitar player; was a much better songwriter. Most other musicians didn't think Cobain could play at all, which Cobain defenders might argue was the point.

He is a great guitarist and one that I've always enjoyed.


Mr. Brownstone wrote:
Pearl Jam must be a pretty good gig to have. They've pretty much reached their career aspiration of becoming Neil Young. There's very little radio hit pressure, and they pretty much can do whatever the fuck they want on an album because they have a solid core following that also turns out in droves for their live shows.

Well, they are without a record label now. One thing I've always liked about Pearl Jam is their ability to buck the system and try to stand out of the rest. I really like their efforts they did to try to fight Ticketmaster's price gouging and other recording industry behemoths.

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Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend"
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Macca00
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 8:08 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 390 Location: Liverpool/England
Saw a profile earlier on BBC TV of Sam Cooke. Narrated by Jools Holland, & featuring contributions from Aretha Franklin, Bobby Womack, Lou Rawls & others, it was an expertly assembled appraisal of his work & legacy. I've always got the impression that Sam Cooke didn't get due appreciation for his songwriting, something the programme was at pains to stress.
The Rolling Stones wanted to meet him & the Beatles wanted to tour with him. Just about says it all, really.
Fascinatingly, the programme aired footage of Cooke covering Dylan's "Blowin' In The Wind" on U.S. TV shows. It claimed that Dylan's standard inspired him to write "A Change Is Gonna Come".
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unohoo
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:13 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 210 Location: Houston, Tx
Sam Cooke is one of those guys that I never really explored for no good reason. My r&b musical history sort of stops in the seventies and I couldn't tell you why. I always confuse him with Otis Redding, I need to remedy that.

That sucks about that cat from Pantera. I just recently tried to get into them with the "Far Beyond Driven" album, still haven't listened to it good enough to have an opinion.

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daffy
Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 3:50 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 1939 Location: Wall Street
Damn, Macca00, I wish I'd seen that! I've been slowly checking out more and more Sam Cooke, and literally just today bought the 3-CD "Sam Cooke With the Soul Stirrers" from Specialty/Fantasy. I haven't even had a chance to listen to it yet.

Cooke was/is one of the most amazing vocalists ever. He was one of those guys who made it all seem easy. Everybody tries to imitate him, even if they don't know it. An absolute giant.
Quote:
I've always got the impression that Sam Cooke didn't get due appreciation for his songwriting, something the programme was at pains to stress

I believe he wrote, "Chain Gang," "Cupid", "Twistin' the Night Away", and above all, "Bring It On Home to Me" (one of the best songs ever). Who amongst us wouldn't die happy if we'd written those songs? And he sang them definitively, too.

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censored-03
Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:18 am Reply with quote
Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 3058 Location: Gotham, Big Apple, The Naked City
Nice stuff about Cooke. Don't forget Another Saturday Night, Only 16, You Send Me, (We're) Having A Party, Good Times, and this from Wonderful World

Don't know much trigonomitry...

But I do know one and one is two
And if this one could be with you
What a wonderful world this would be

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unohoo
Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:34 am Reply with quote
Joined: 30 May 2004 Posts: 210 Location: Houston, Tx
I bought Cam'ron's "Purple Haze" which is one of the best cd's I bought this year. I love it because it celebrates all of the ugliness and beauty that comes with the fallout of capitalism. Misogyny, materialism, murder and no remorse. It's perfect fodder for: pseudo-intellectual black nationalist reactionism, the older hip-hop generation who fear they've 'outgrown' the music, critics who say that hip-hop is dying, and anyone else who needs another source of negative stereotypes about black folk. All that bullshit aside though, Cam'ron (a guy I used to hate) has an incredible ear for production. He's almost like Ghostface on a couple of levels because he's able to work with producers that most people haven't heard of but is able to get some of the best production at the moment. Both have a tendency towards the cryptic verse in order to maintain a cool flow, but Killa Cam's tangential talents seem more functional and humorous where Ghostface will just have you scratching your head for the next six months.

I can't believe Roc-a-fella has been sitting on this all year, I mean I know Kanye West has been everywhere but this album is straight heat.

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Marc
Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:53 am Reply with quote
Joined: 19 May 2004 Posts: 8424
SCISSOR SISTERS on SNL were almost there but not quite. Dig the concept, dig the songs, but the execution left me somewhat cold.
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Private Joker
Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:57 am Reply with quote
Joined: 28 May 2004 Posts: 322
Marc wrote:
SCISSOR SISTERS on SNL were almost there but not quite. Dig the concept, dig the songs, but the execution left me somewhat cold.


You've gotta see 'em live. When you're there in the room, it's one of the best shows you'll see this year. I fuckin' loved it,

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soozala
Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:47 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 18 Jun 2004 Posts: 62
Dan Aquilante of The New York Post reviewed last nights Pixie's show at the Hammerstein Ballroom. He did not seem too enthusiastic about it, actually it red like he was bored to be there. Two items that I thought were complimentary were that Kim Deal has a great voice, when she used it and that Frank Black obviously likes donuts like Dan likes donuts.

I am curious as to what Ehle thought of the show, I don't know Ehle, but I would respect his review more than Dan's. I hope he'll share his Pixie experience....
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Marc
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:15 am Reply with quote
Joined: 19 May 2004 Posts: 8424
Dan Aquilante is an awful music reviewer. He's been writing for the POST for decades and I have no idea how he got the gig. He knows jackshit about music. His writing is often comically bad.
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billyweeds
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:02 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 20618 Location: New York City
Sam Cooke's "Twistin' the Night Away" is one of my all-time favorite tunes. Anybody else like it like I do, or is it considered second-rank Cooke?
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chillywilly
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:19 am Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 8250 Location: Salt Lake City
soozala wrote:
I am curious as to what Ehle thought of the show, I don't know Ehle, but I would respect his review more than Dan's. I hope he'll share his Pixie experience....

Yes, Dan is a worthless piece of shit and his writing and style emulate his self worth. I felt the same way 9 years ago when I doing a lot of music reviews and always felt even my worst reviews (by my basis) were never even close to Dan's.

I am very anxious to hear ehle's review of the Pixies. If their performance was even close to the one I saw in late September here in Utah, it will be an incredible and glowing review from ehle.

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Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend"
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ehle64
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:38 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 7149 Location: NYC; US&A
I am so serious when I say this, but, I don't even know where to begin.

The whole show was perfection. More later when I come down. But b4 I do:

THE PIXIES ARE THE WORLD'S GREATEST ROCK-AND-ROLL BAND!!!

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