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marantzo |
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:18 pm |
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I can see why Lissa left the forum. |
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Kate |
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:47 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1397
Location: Pacific Northwest
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sioux wrote: I've been thinking for a while that a draft might actually help the situation in this country - the religious right might not be quite so righteous if they're forced to send their kids off to war. I have been thinking about that in terms of parents who vote. I was talking about that with a friend of mine today and he said he had been thinking along the same lines, but for a different reason. He was frustrated by the lack of young people voting, and he's starting to feel like, hey if you won't participate, then, fine, you go off and fight this war (you have to cut my friend some slack, he had just come from a conversation with his father, who was overjoyed that Bush can "fix" the Supreme Court and outlaw abortion).
One thing that really really bothers me is that Daschle got voted out. I don't know the political situation in South Dakota but it is unusual for a state to vote out a senior, influential Senator. It feels to me like the Republican party wanted to take him out deliberately - maybe I'm being paranoid, but it feels like they wanted to shut down strong opposition.
mcbain - I really think the Republicans were the ones to bring "gay marriage" up to start with. Karl Rove wanted that issue on the table so that he could motivate his forces. The Massachuetts legislature probably played into his hands, but I think Rove and co. would have figured out a way to keep the issue in the forefront no matter what.
Someone else I know brought up today that national security fears also seems to be one of the deciding issues in this election, and isn't it ironic that the citizens in the most visible and likely terror targets voted overwhelmly not to keep Bush.
Of course in the middle of all the commiserating today with my friends, I got a call from a new business contact, who lives in Kentucky. I haven't met him yet, I don't know his political leanings, but it was weird to suddenly shift gears and be chipper, answering his polite "how are you" with "oh fine", not "depressed and angry".
As a parent, all I can say that the idea of a draft makes my blood run cold. |
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Joe Vitus |
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:49 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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Chilly,
Quote: I'm going to speak out more and let my concerns, thoughts and other issues be known.
I applaud you for that. |
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Joe Vitus |
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:02 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 14498
Location: Houston
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Quote: Perhaps the most surprising news for gay observers of the presidential election is that exit polls show President Bush received the exact same percentage of gay votes — 23 percent — as he did four years ago. This despite the president's vocal support for a federal constitutional amendment banning gay marraige.
According to the CNN exit poll, 4 percent of all voters identified as gay, lesbian or bisexual, the same percentage as four years ago, at least as reported by ABC News that year. By comparison, 11 percent of voters were black, 9 percent were Latino, 2 percent were Asian, and 3 percent were Jewish. In 1996, 5 percent of the electorate self-identified as gay.
Democrat John Kerry did pick up a slightly higher tally of gay voters, however. Kerry received 77 percent of gay votes according to the NEP poll; Gore received 70 percent in 2000 according to ABC.
http://www.washblade.com/blog/index.cfm?blog_id=155 |
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Nancy |
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:22 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 4607
Location: Norman, OK
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I attribute Kerry's loss to our state's Democratic Party. They jinxed the election by emailing me (and presumably everyone else on their list) the lyrics to "Happy Days Are Here Again." Three times.
But seriously, I'm expecting the economy to get worse, as if it wasn't bad enough already. Last year about this time, there were people with master's degrees applying for janitor's jobs. This year, it's people with doctorates. (Well, at least one that I've heard of.) I'm just glad I have a job, and I'm hanging onto it tooth and nail. |
_________________ "All in all, it's just another feather in the fan."
Isaacism, 2009 |
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chillywilly |
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:31 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8250
Location: Salt Lake City
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zzzzzzzzzz..... wrote: "And here we go again with the "illegitimate" election fantasies. The whole basis of argument for the left in recent times has been "if I don't agree with it, it must be a lie." This has never been more evident than right now. Witness: This election is a fraud, a sham. The Republicans (sorry, Rethuglicans) cheated their way through another vote. The vote counts are all wrong. The machines were fixed. Someone was paid off. And, of course, the exit polls were rigged. Even if Bush were to win both the Electoral vote and the popular vote, his win would be decried as illegal. Perhaps that is what is driving the hate today; the fact that there is nothing to point to in order to support the cries of another fake presidency."
[size=14Interesting read, zzzzz.
The above part is exactly what most of those who voted for Bush think about every liberal Democrat. They base their whole view of every single liberal as the few that went overboard and sent him emails.
In repsonse to his blog entry, here is my statement:
I voted for John Kerry.
I am not a hating liberal.
I do not spend my days planning how many republicans I will kill or mame.
I am not a hater of religious people.
I am not bitter and wish George W Bush dead.
I am not out to stop anyone from supporting Geoge W Bush.
I do not think every Republican prays to god and goes to church.
I do feel that people who voted for GWB, voted out of either fear or love for their president or for lack of accepting that such a man would ever do anything wrong or damage this country.
I do feel that your kids' kids will still be paying off the debt he incurred.
I do feel that leaders of the free world should not wear their religion on their sleeve or use it when making important world-changing decisions.
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_________________ Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
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chillywilly |
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 6:42 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8250
Location: Salt Lake City
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joker thanks for the afternoon laugh... cool pic and very appropriate.
lacey... thanks for your posts today. Very good reads.
marc... that article you posted is a keeper. Says pretty much how it is.
Today has been pretty somber, but it's been nice to reflect on things. Reading Kerry's concession speech was a nice way to know that we did a lot of work to bring a change to this nation. Too bad Bush will never do anything to eliminate the division. He's always going to be a divider, not a uniter.
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_________________ Chilly
"If you should die before me / Ask if you could bring a friend" |
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sioux |
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:07 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 802
Location: philly burbs
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kate - I know - listen I can feel this way cause I KNOW it will never happen. |
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Marilyn |
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:21 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8210
Location: Skokie (not a bad movie, btw)
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Quote: You will not live in fear.
You didn't read my post, zzzzzzzz. I do live in fear. Do you know that passengers on airplanes are harrassed with the stupidest, most ineffectual "security" checks possible, yet because the airlines bleated about how putting security measures in place to check the 25% of the nation's cargo that travels on their commercial jets, NOTHING is done to check them. Every time you go into the air, you risk your life--all because it's bad for business. I lay that directly at the feet of an administration that plans to make me safer by killing babies in Iraq. |
_________________ http://ferdyonfilms.com |
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Ghulam |
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:33 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 4742
Location: Upstate NY
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There is only one thing worse than a Bush second term, and that is Paul Wolfowitz being appointed Secretary of State or Defence. If that happens, Heaven help us. |
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zzzzzzzzzz..... |
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:54 pm |
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Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 35
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Marilyn,
I am sorry you live in fear and you are right about the security checks. But to racialy profile would be anti pc and we can't have that.
I think the rhetoric needs to calm down so that we can actualy talk about our choices. If nothing this last election was more about screaming than the debate of ideas. We need to inject some trust into the process some how. An example is The pirate dude on the NYT says that repubs weant to kill all of the old people. How can you have a debate with someone who starts there. There is too much bile in the political process for anything to get done.
There has always been risk in life and the crazeyness of suicide bomber is very unnerving to our society. I mean there was guy with a shoe bomb for god's sake! How crazey is that. You will never has a Gov't that protects you 100%, it just doesn't happen. They are not your parents but they do the best they can. |
_________________ She turned me into a newt.......I got better |
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Marilyn |
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:03 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8210
Location: Skokie (not a bad movie, btw)
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You're afraid of the wrong things, zzzzzzz. And who said anything about racial profiling? A bomber would never have to show his or her face, or get onboard, to get a bomb aboard a plane. |
_________________ http://ferdyonfilms.com |
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Marilyn |
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:06 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8210
Location: Skokie (not a bad movie, btw)
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And I never asked for 100% safety. That's what Republicans seem to want. I want cargo X-rayed. I don't think cost should be the reason we don't do it. There was plenty of money to invade Iraq; why doesn't the government give the money to the airlines instead to be sure our homeland is safer AT HOME. They subsidize farmers for no reason, after all. If they're going to provide corporate welfare, at least make it useful. |
_________________ http://ferdyonfilms.com |
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Marc |
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:19 pm |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 8424
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ZZZZZZZZ,
you're a fucking idiot. Go crawl back into your hole. |
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Syd |
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:29 pm |
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Site Admin
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 12895
Location: Norman, Oklahoma
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Don't feel too bad, Nancy. It's not your fault, it's mine. I gave small donations to Kerry when I got signs; the first donation cost Oklahoma, and the second doomed the nation.
I think in the next election, Democrats should nominate somebody people actually like, preferably not someone odd-looking. Kerry, Dukakis and Mondale just didn't work out too well. I like Al Gore a lot but he does seem a bit like an anatromic robot.
The 2008 election could be interesting. I don't see an obvious Bush successor, although I suppose his brother could run. Hopefully the Democrats will find a fresh face rather than any of this year's crowd. We do have several new governors, as well as new senators Obama and Salazar. |
_________________ I had a love and my love was true but I lost my love to the yabba dabba doo, --The Flintstone Lament |
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