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| yambu |
 Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:06 am |
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Joined: 23 May 2004
Posts: 6441
Location: SF Bay Area
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Syd wrote: .....The artist specializes in Civil War motifs with lots of genitals, quotations handwritten around the heads of generals, and slaves with faces of the white people he knows since he doesn't know any black people...... |
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| yambu |
| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:19 am |
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Joined: 23 May 2004
Posts: 6441
Location: SF Bay Area
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Syd wrote: ....Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room is a thorough and absorbing study of the Enron scandal.....
The Lay/Skilling trial starts tomorrow. If it's televised, it's gonna make the OJ circus look like Judge Judy. |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:21 am |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 9016
Location: Shanghai
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Quote: Born into Brothels won the Oscar last year.
Didn't realise that. Or forgot.
Born Into Brothels was released Dec. 8, 2004.
So a 2004 release, though certainly 2005 viewing.
I have Head On at the top of one of the dvd piles.
Will read Syd's post after watching.
Unfortunately, the Enron documentary hasn't surfaced here yet. Has anyone seen: The Boys from Baraka or A Decent Factory? |
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| Ghulam |
| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:42 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 4742
Location: Upstate NY
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| I may have liked Head-On a bit more than Syd did. The fact that two losers succeed in saving each other and yet are denied true happiness by Fate is the stuff that makes good sagas. |
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| yambu |
| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:55 am |
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Joined: 23 May 2004
Posts: 6441
Location: SF Bay Area
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re Junebug, I'm almost sure it was Melody who remarked that Southerners she knows didn't like it that much. Why not? What was not real for them? Please address the church dinner scene, where young attendees would fall into spontaneous, casual prayer, as part of the general conversation. Is this not genuine? I don't know, I'm asking.
And how about the artist's accent? I haven't heard anything like that since Robert Duvall in Tomorrow. Real, or not? (For that matter, was Duvall real?) |
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| McBain |
| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:02 am |
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Joined: 26 May 2004
Posts: 1987
Location: Boston
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| I saw the Enron doc and also Murderball. They are both recommended. |
_________________
A life, Jimmy. You know what that is? It's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come. |
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| shannon |
| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:02 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 1628
Location: NC
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yambu wrote: Please address the church dinner scene, where young attendees would fall into spontaneous, casual prayer, as part of the general conversation. Is this not genuine?
The church dinner scene was a tad exaggerated, but not to an egregious degree. I've been to more than a few Southern church dinners of varying denominations over the years and no one has ever spontaneously broke out into prayer at one of them. Generally the preacher will lead everyone in prayer once before the meal is to commence and that's it. (In my experience, Southern people, at least those born post-1960, aren't any more religious than anybody else in the America. Once the older generation of Southerner finally dies out, the term "bible belt" will have lost its meaning except for maybe in the über-rural, inbred areas.) George's song would probably never happen in real life, but I still bought it as a valid "movie moment".
Quote: And how about the artist's accent? I haven't heard anything like that since Robert Duvall in Tomorrow. Real, or not? (For that matter, was Duvall real?)
I can't comment on Duvall, but the artist in Junebug: Not real. At all. I also find it quite hard to believe that this old guy in his 60-something years had "never seen a nigger before" especially considering the area the film is supposed to take place in is around 20-30% black. And even if it took place in the fucking Appalachian mountains, it's still hard to believe. Maybe if the movie took place in 1945 as opposed to 2005...
Quote: What was not real for them?
It seemed to me that every character except George and Madeleine fell neatly into some silly dumb redneck Southern stereotype that has little-to-no basis in reality. (The artist being the most egregious example.) The mother? Loud, more opinionated than she has any right be given her ignorance, disdainful of anything remotely resembling "culture." (Upon seeing the antique baby spoon, "Cain't warsh that in the dish warsher.") The brother? "Life ain't never been near as good as back when I played ball back in high school. Them was thuh days, I'm tellin' you! Had to drop out after Mary Lou got pregnint, though. Didn't matter much. Got muh GED, workin' down at the factory now. Makin' good money. Livin' with muh mawma and muh diddy..." Should I continue?
Of course, all this wouldn't matter should the movie have convinced me that these people were real, that there was something else to them under the surface. But it didn't. Certainly these stereotypes do exist but their prevalence is certainly not as great as it seemed to be in the world of Junebug . The movie would have you believe the entire state of North Carolina is populated by these cliche people. And it supposedly takes place in a suburb of Winston-Salem? Winston-Salem isn't Manhattan or anything, but it's not Mayberry either. |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:17 am |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
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Quote: we are talking about a pair of self-destructive people who are not necessarily good for each other.
Yes we are. This is the stuff of classic drama and HEAD-ON does it well.
Quote: Sibel Kekilli, who plays Sibel, is in her first movie,
Sibel Kekilli has been in several dozen hardcore porn movies. |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:25 am |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 9016
Location: Shanghai
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shannon, after your original post on Junebug ("Ahm gonna naim mah bay-bee, Joonbug" or whatever), I couldn't help thinking of the old Carol Burnett Show, with their recurring skit on a hillbilly family.
yambu, what few lines unmasked the painter a little? |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 3:28 am |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 9016
Location: Shanghai
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Shannon, everyone knows that those stereotypes are out of date.
North Carolina is really brimming over with gay soldiers.
Army to Investigate Gay Porn Allegations
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/01/28/D8FDH3AO0.html |
Last edited by gromit on Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| yambu |
| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:40 am |
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Joined: 23 May 2004
Posts: 6441
Location: SF Bay Area
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gromit wrote: yambu, what few lines unmasked the painter a little?
Spoiler -When closing the Chicago deal, he said he couldn't deal with the Jewish broker in NY. And then he told her that it was crystal clear - to his artist sensibilities - that she was walking in the path of Jesus, or words to that effect. (Of course, she wasn't, but she didn't protest.) |
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| gromit |
| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:00 am |
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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Location: Shanghai
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Thanks, that slipped my mind.
** JUNEBUG SPOILERS AND TAILFIN**
I like how at first she tells him that her competitor is also Jewish, then decides that it's too unseemly to play that game.
As for the white-faced blacks, I didn't think it was because he had never seen a black person. I thought that he said he didn't have any black friends, and his usual method is to paint faces that he knows from memory.
I can't remember whether that is strictly accurate or just how I interpreted things. (Sometimes, I re-write or re-interpret some elements of a movie in a way which seems better, or more believable, to me). |
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| Melody |
| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:02 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 2242
Location: TX
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Shannon hits the nail on the head re: Junebug's annoyingly stereotypical characters. The other thing that bugged me was the filmmaker's apparent fascination with the neighbor woman, clothed in what we suthuners call a housedress. Every time we see her, she's just standing there in her yard like a dullard. Are we supposed to laugh at her? Pity her? Is she "other," like the retarded painter, to them big-city folk? What's the point?
Yeah, I'm picking nits, but only because the filmmaker went out of his way to show Embeth repeatedly staring out of windows at small brick homes on large overgrown lawns, like she was traversing unchartered territory. It just seemed the filmmaker went out of his way to showcase The South as foreign, which is irritating to southerners.
In contrast, think of Monster, another small budget character study set in a small nondescript town. This time it's Florida, but still, the dinginess and overgrown-ness of the landscape is seen in passing -- no lingering shots of bungalows with tipping porches or overflowing garbage cans, for instance -- and so we accept it as a given and concentrate on the story. |
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My heart told my head: This time, no. |
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| billyweeds |
| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:25 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 20618
Location: New York City
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** JUNEBUG SPOILERS AND TAILFIN**
I like how at first she tells him that her competitor is also Jewish, then decides that it's too unseemly to play that game.
gromit--I have a very perceptive director friend who swears Madeleine's "slip of the tongue" was absolutely intentional, and that her "retraction" was like a lawyer in a court saying "I withdraw the question" after the implications have already been made clear.
yambu--Amy Adams was definitely a supporting character, as was everyone in the film except Madeleine, who was the leading character by dint of being the "outsider" who is looking (with us) at the alien characters.
But, shannon and Melody--I disagree 100 percent that the characters in Junebug are stereotypes. They may be based on stereotypical characteristics, but the development of the characters is anything but boilerplate. Your description of the mother makes her sound like a sitcom character, and any halfway open look at the movie will show that she's a lot closer to William Faulkner than Norman Lear. Junebug is like a piece of outsider art itself, and I admit to increasing annoyance at the willful dismissal of this great work. |
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| mo_flixx |
| Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:50 am |
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Joined: 30 May 2004
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yambu wrote: gromit wrote: yambu, what few lines unmasked the painter a little? When closing the Chicago deal, he said he couldn't deal with the Jewish broker in NY. And then he told her that it was crystal clear - to his artist sensibilities - that she was walking in the path of Jesus, or words to that effect. (Of course, she wasn't, but she didn't protest.)
WHAT MOVIE ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? "Junebug??" |
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