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yambu
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 5:31 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 23 May 2004 Posts: 6441 Location: SF Bay Area
The NY Public Library at Lincoln Center begins a four-month Vaudeville exhibit t6oday. Here's an article, for you NYT subscribers:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/19/arts/design/19vaud.html
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Nancy
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 5:59 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 4607 Location: Norman, OK
I'm certainly in favor of a pause -- I need to find my copy of The Sheik, and I still need to re-watch The General. Also, I will be incredibly busy for the next week, so I may get behind on posting.

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Nancy
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 6:05 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 4607 Location: Norman, OK
The discussion about reading actors' lips reminds me of the time I had to see On the Waterfront for a film class. I don't particularly care for Marlon Brando, partly because I have trouble understanding what he is saying. I think I picked up a smidgen of lip-reading from my mother, who had a partial hearing loss. I could make out some of what Brando was saying when he was facing the camera, but when he turned his back on it (as he often did in this film), I was totally lost. The result was a severe headache, and a lack of appreciation for what is generally considered to be a great film.

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MVerdoux
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 6:19 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 37 Location: NYC & NJ
bocce wrote:
this is particularly apparent in paulette goddard's role. goddard really never did silents. her style evolved from soundstage acting. while chaplin remains the master of nuanced gesture, goddard's approach drops that necessary accoutrement of the silent film and, thus, appears more modern particularly in speech patterns.

what i mean here is: in pre sound silent acting there is a tendency to overwork the facial muscles when doing dialogue particularly when there was an intertitle (as tho the audience needed to lip read). with goddard, that artifice is gone and speech patterns seem more naturalistic.

maybe it's just me or maybe it's just this film or actress but, i swear, it comes across as a real definable change in acting style.


Simply put, Paulette is wonderful in the film - but she does seem like somebody on speed - she's practically bouncing off the walls. She didn't know quite how to adjust to the film being cranked at 16 and 18fps (and then projected and locked to sound at 24fps) Chaplin used playing with speeds (as did Keaton and other silent artists) to enhance the sprightliness and otherworldlyness of their performances. In other words undercranking (and overcranking for slowmotion) were tools of the trade.

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MVerdoux
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 6:29 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 37 Location: NYC & NJ
lady wakasa wrote:
BTW, a lot of time the audience was lipreading. Not hard to do - if you existed solely on a diet of silents, you would probably pick up some ability in that direction as well. If you watch Wings, I think it's Charles Rogers who clearly says, "Bastard!" during one of the dogfight scenes. And several stars clearly went through the silent version of the FCC's seven dirty words. (I'm not sure how often they were caught.)

You might want to check alt.movies.silent - there's a thread called "Who Has the Filthiest Mouth in Silent Movies ?" (The answer seems to be, "Go see What Price Glory?").


Here are a few:

In THE FIREMAN - Edna Purviance turns to the camera (after leaving Charlie and Eric Campbell on the stoop) and clearly says "bastard" - to which of them it's directed is not totally clear.

In THE BELOVED ROGUE John Barrymore mouths a clear "SON OF A BITCH" when refused a drink.

There's a goodly amount in WINGS as I remember. I love that Brownlow and Gill use a quick clip of it in their opening credits for the HOLLYWOOD series where pilot Richard Arlen is seen in the cockpit yelling "HOLY CHRIST! GODDAMN IT!" as he being dogged by a German fighter plane.

It's pretty gratuitous in WHAT PRICE GLORY? - a film I've never been able to like - as the characters are so unlikeable.

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"We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost." - Charles Chaplin
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MVerdoux
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 6:33 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 37 Location: NYC & NJ
Nancy wrote:
The discussion about reading actors' lips reminds me of the time I had to see On the Waterfront for a film class. I don't particularly care for Marlon Brando, partly because I have trouble understanding what he is saying. I think I picked up a smidgen of lip-reading from my mother, who had a partial hearing loss. I could make out some of what Brando was saying when he was facing the camera, but when he turned his back on it (as he often did in this film), I was totally lost. The result was a severe headache, and a lack of appreciation for what is generally considered to be a great film.


Brando can be an acquired taste (my wife used to despise him - but I've brought her around) and a lot of that has to do with which of his films you see. He could speak quite clearly and articulately - as his Englishmen portrayals in MUTINY ON THE BOUNTY and BURN! attest. In short - he's only speaking that way because the part(s) called for it.

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"We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost." - Charles Chaplin
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MVerdoux
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:12 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 37 Location: NYC & NJ
lady wakasa wrote:

"Silent Clowns: this may be cutting it a bit close, but the Silent Clowns Film Series in NYC ends on December 4th with a showing of Laurel and Hardy films. (Actually, tomorrow they're doing Raymond Griffith, Lupino Lane and Lloyd Hamilton, comedians all.) Depending on timing, maybe the NYC folks can meet up for the showing... http://www.silentclowns.com/"


Thanks for the plug!

And any of you that attend, please say hello - I'm the projectionist and co-presenter of the series. Smile

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"We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost." - Charles Chaplin
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marantzo
Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:24 pm Reply with quote
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Great, MV. I wish I were in NY.
Nancy
Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:28 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 4607 Location: Norman, OK
marantzo wrote:
Great, MV. I wish I were in NY.


Me too. That's so tempting.

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bocce
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:41 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 24 May 2004 Posts: 2428
since i finished my trivia question, i assume most are aware the THE GENERAL is based on an actual event. ...

every georgia schoolboy learns this story by fourth grade. in a plot to cut confederate supply lines to eastern tennessee in advance of a union attack against chattanooga, a group of union operatives sieze the general (the real nickname of the actual engine).

their intent was to disrupt communication and destroy the rail link, bridges, etc. from atlanta thru to chattanooga. at first moderately sucessful, they ultimately are caught up with (by atlanta & western employees who commandeer "the texas" to pursue) in resaca, ga, just short of chattanooga.

i believe eight of the original 21 conspiritors were hanged and were awarded the first medals of honor to be issued...
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Syd
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:54 pm Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 12894 Location: Norman, Oklahoma
Here's a detailed story about Andrew's Raiders and
The General and The Texas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Locomotive_Chase

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lady wakasa
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:01 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 5911 Location: Beyond the Blue Horizon
bocce wrote:
since i finished my trivia question, i assume most are aware the THE GENERAL is based on an actual event. ...

every georgia schoolboy learns this story by fourth grade. in a plot to cut confederate supply lines to eastern tennessee in advance of a union attack against chattanooga, a group of union operatives sieze the general (the real nickname of the actual engine).

their intent was to disrupt communication and destroy the rail link, bridges, etc. from atlanta thru to chattanooga. at first moderately sucessful, they ultimately are caught up with (by atlanta & western employees who commandeer "the texas" to pursue) in resaca, ga, just short of chattanooga.

i believe eight of the original 21 conspiritors were hanged and were awarded the first medals of honor to be issued...


Actually didn't know that.

They did mention Chattanooga in the story as the key location. And I bet, since this was 60 years out, that it wasn't unreasonable for a percentage of the audience to know that the story had some truth to it.

One thing I find interesting in these Civil War movies is that the South is always presented as the "good guys." I would guess that the success of Birth of a Nation had something to do with that, except I've seen movies predating BoaN which do the same thing.

Not sure why that would be.
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Marilyn
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:04 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 8210 Location: Skokie (not a bad movie, btw)
Our Hospitality kind of plays both sides of the line. Southern hospitality is the only thing standing between Keaton and the brothers' hatred of Yankees.

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yambu
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:04 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 23 May 2004 Posts: 6441 Location: SF Bay Area
I think I remember, as a kid, seeing a Walt Disney film about this.
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Ghulam
Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:16 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 4742 Location: Upstate NY
Sheik (1921) too is very well produced and still quite watchable. The story is told very lucidly and is well sequenced. The photography is very good. One sees why Valentino, the great Latin lover, became such a matinee idol. This is the first time I saw the whole movie, and it was quite enjoyable.
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