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| Syd |
 Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:18 am |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 12894
Location: Norman, Oklahoma
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| Oh, Martin van Buren also opposed the extension of slavery; he slips into that 20 year period. |
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I had a love and my love was true but I lost my love to the yabba dabba doo, --The Flintstone Lament |
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| tirebiter |
| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:51 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 4011
Location: not far away
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Lolitaphiles will enjoy the NYT op-ed today noting the 50th anniversary of the publication of the novel. It briefly limns the confused and derisive reception of the novel from mainstream critics who just didn't get what current scholars now recognize as one of the milestones of 20th Century lit.
Humbert Humbert Died For Your Sins! |
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| yambu |
| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 9:50 pm |
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Joined: 23 May 2004
Posts: 6441
Location: SF Bay Area
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| Thanks for that, Tire. There was a lot in there that I didn't know. "Humbert may be a pervert, but he is not loose." I wish I had said that during our discussion. |
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| Marilyn |
| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:31 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8210
Location: Skokie (not a bad movie, btw)
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I have finally finished the massive Dennis Potter: A Biography (1999) by Humphrey Carpenter. I found this book compelling reading both for the excellent writing of Mr. Carpenter and for the examination of the works of a writer I greatly admire. Curiously, however, I found the book leaving me too distanced from Potter because of the strict reportorial approach Carpenter takes.
The book relies on interviews with principals in Potter's life, reviews of his works, and all written and recorded utterances by Potter himself. His works are described in detail, but with a detachment that relies on the opinions of others, not those of Carpenter; in other words, this is not a critical appraisal of his work. That would not be a fault in a biographyper se, but in a biography that refuses to get beyond the dutiful recitation of themes Potter returned to time and again while relying heavily on those works to tell its story, it is a shortcoming. Additionally, because Margaret Potter, Dennis Potter's wife, died shortly before he did, very, very little about her is included in the biography. This is a serious flaw, particularly given the characterization of Potter as a chronically ill, dyspeptic alcoholic who was given to crushes on younger women and who was impotent because of the drugs he took for his psoriatic arthopathy for many of the years of their marriage. What are we to make of Margaret's relationship with him, which by all accounts, was an extremely devoted one. Is this idealization? Are the rows that are mentioned more of a daily occurrence than the biography indicates?
Carpenter's respect for Potter's privacy, his desire not to write anything that can't be verified by at least two sources, and his apparent desire not to turn the book into a peep-show tell-all can be admired. But I can't say that the book is a definitive biography either. It is too reverent and desirous of pleasing. There are contrary voices in the mix, including Potter's longtime producer Kenith Trodd and one of the actresses he fixated on, Gina Bellman (Blackeyes). These people could have provided more insight, but Carpenter averts his eyes. Given that his subject, though reportedly a very shy man, was voyeuristic, exhibitionistic, and often fearless in his writing, it's hard to countenance the reluctance for same in his biographer. Nonetheless, I enjoyed this book and would recommend it to Potter enthusiasts. |
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| judithannie |
| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:31 pm |
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Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 224
Location: Albuquerque NM
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Syd
I was wondering how you are liking Jonathan Strange. I finished it a while back. Although I liked it, I didn't think it quite lived up to the reviews. I gave it to my daughter for her birthday, based on the reviews and she read it on her annual train trip from NY to CA at Christmas. (she won,t fly since 9/11). She felt it was a little slow to start but over all liked it. I don't quite know why I am so ambivalent about it. Or at least about recommending it, mostly due to its length. At that is more a reflection of the tastes of the people who have asked me about it. While I don't mind slogging through a long dense read, a lot of people want more action, a bigger payoff. That is why I am so anxious to see what you have to say. It might help me put my thoughts about it into perspective. |
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| Syd |
| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:02 am |
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Site Admin
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 12894
Location: Norman, Oklahoma
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| I'm about halfway through Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell. I'm generally enjoying it, although it dragged sometimes in the first third. I had more difficulty getting into the intrusions from the land of Faerie than in the stuff that takes place in England proper. I thought it picked up a lot when Jonathan Strange appears. Norrell was getting to be a bore. About three hundred pages into it, I suddenly realized who John Uskglass was (I'm not sure if it had been mentioned before and I missed it), which means the book is taking a turn I wasn't expecting. I've also found myself laughing out loud at many points, which makes people look strangely at me. The chapter about Jonathan Strange's father and the little tale about the Master of Nottingham's ring are very good, and the effects of some of the magical spells are beautifully described. I liked the whole section about the Peninsular War. I'm currently up to Strange's visit with King George III. |
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I had a love and my love was true but I lost my love to the yabba dabba doo, --The Flintstone Lament |
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| tirebiter |
| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:25 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 4011
Location: not far away
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I'm just finishing "The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-time" by Mark Haddon. Many friends had told me I'd enjoy it, and they were right. It reminded me of Jonathan Lethem's "Motherless Brooklyn," another book about a person with a mental disorder (Tourette's Syndrome) who tells his own story. "Curious Incident" is narrated by a young man with a form of autism.
I'm trying to think of other first-person fiction books by people with mental disorders, some "reliable narrators" and some not. Anyone? |
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| Marc |
| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:27 am |
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Joined: 19 May 2004
Posts: 8424
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| The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-time is gimmicky crap. |
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| judithannie |
| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:57 am |
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Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 224
Location: Albuquerque NM
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Syd
I agree with you about the humor - especially during the war.(I don't want to give anything away by saying more) And looking back, the first third of the book is where I had trouble and my daughter too. Once Jonathan entered it became much more interesting. Please post more once you finish.
Tire
I loved The Curious Incident . Another book that didn't go where I expected it to having read the reviews. But I like where it went better. I was expecting more of a detective story. It's been a while since I read it but I really liked the boy - his literalness - doesn't get jokes and thinks allegories are lies. I never felt the author was condescending or patronizing towards his character. I think it is one of those books I could reread again and again because I like keeping company with Christopher Boone. |
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| tirebiter |
| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:53 am |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
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Marc: I disagree. "Gimmicky" sounds like the character can't exist as he's limned in the book-- I don't think that's true. Have you met autistic people? Some are much more functional than others, and Christopher is among them-- though he obviously has severe limitations.
I suspended my disbelief in what you call the novel's "gimmick." You didn't. So it goes.
Have you read "Motherless Brooklyn"? You could have played the lead in the movie (when you were younger), based on Lethem's description of Lionel.... |
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| Syd |
| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:35 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 12894
Location: Norman, Oklahoma
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I finished Jonathan Strange and Mr Norell and enjoyed it very much. Of course, it couldn't live up to the reviews, which compared it with Dickens and Austen, and, in Neil Gaiman's case, proclaimed it "Unquestionably the finest English novel of the fantastic written in the last seventy years." (Tolkein fans might have something to say about that.) It's one of the finest, though, often funny, often haunting, and, to my surprise, does not fall apart to the end, as did, for example, Little, Big. I also think it's a book that will repay a rereading in a year or too. It's a long and detailed book, but the details are fascinating, and I love a lot of the little stories told in the footnotes.
Spoilers
Some things I really love: what happens when Strange and Norrell finally meet again toward the end, which, when you think back, is perfectly in character. Arabella, of course, understands perfectly. I've very fond of Arabella, and don't believe for a second she and Strange won't figure out some way around the darkness. Maybe she could visit him at night...
The "slave with no name" has a nice parallel with "the gentleman with thistle-down hair," who, if you notice, has no name as well. I thought for a while he might be Auberon, but he's apparently nor him, either.
I still wonder what precisely is going on with Childermass, who I was half-expecting to turn out to be John Uskglass. Perhaps there's another story coming.
I thought the trip to Venice was a weak point; it was Lady Pole who had the paintings of Venice, not Arabella. Venice didn't seem to fit in as comfortably as Spain. It did give an excuse to put Lord Byron in the novel, but he seemed a bit superfluous. William Blake would have fit in more comfortably. |
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I had a love and my love was true but I lost my love to the yabba dabba doo, --The Flintstone Lament |
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| Syd |
| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:39 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 12894
Location: Norman, Oklahoma
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| I didn't find it all that hard to read. I recently read Neal Stephenson's Baroque Cycle and a couple of fantasies by China Mieville; Susanna Clarke is a lot more digestible than those. Next up is The Historian, yet another doorstop novel. |
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I had a love and my love was true but I lost my love to the yabba dabba doo, --The Flintstone Lament |
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| Marilyn |
| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:44 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 8210
Location: Skokie (not a bad movie, btw)
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| Does anyone read nonfiction around here? I'd be willing to take up a nonfiction book that others are interested in. |
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| judithannie |
| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:11 am |
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Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 224
Location: Albuquerque NM
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Syd
I have The Historian on my reading list too. I will be interested to hear what you think about it. There are so many great new books out now I don't know where to start. I'm also interested in On Beauty by Zadie Smith. It's short listed for the Booker Prize this year and I really liked her first novel White Teeth.
I drove to Chama today to lend Jonathan Strange to a friend who lives there. She works at the quilt shop there and in the winter, her husband reads to her while she sews samples for the shop. I think that's so sweet.
It's a 55 mile drive one-way but the leaves are turning and I wanted to buy some chiles to freeze for the winter. What with the explosion of autumn colors and the smell of roasted chiles coming from the back of my truck, it was a wonderful day. I love fall in the southwest. |
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| Syd |
| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:18 am |
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Site Admin
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 12894
Location: Norman, Oklahoma
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| Marilyn: I read a lot of nonfiction. Lately it seems to be mostly history and books about language, science or mathematics.[/i] |
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I had a love and my love was true but I lost my love to the yabba dabba doo, --The Flintstone Lament |
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