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| bocce |
 Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:33 pm |
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Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 2428
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i've got some real problems with a physically responsive entity being starved to death...
yeah, she's brain dead but it still physically hurts to starve. |
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| Marj |
| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:42 pm |
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Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 10497
Location: Manhattan
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| I wonder? I wonder if she can feel anything. I honestly don't know. |
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| marantzo |
| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:56 pm |
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Guest
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bocce wrote: i've got some real problems with a physically responsive entity being starved to death...
yeah, she's brain dead but it still physically hurts to starve.
I just saw a leading neurologist on the news tonight and she isn't physically responsive. She is not even conscious. Her eyes are open sometimes and she blinks which is a muscular reaction not an intellegtual response. And as to your second statement, she feels nothing. He showed an xray of her brain with the parts that were knocked out and that with those gone she has no awareness whatsoever, The parts of her brain that keep her breathing etc. are intact. |
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| Rod |
| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:00 pm |
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Joined: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 2944
Location: Lithgow, Australia
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| It's interesting to note that triumph of moral values hasn't stopped a return of good old-fashioned school and workplace shooting sprees of late. Perhaps it's nostalgia for the late '90s. |
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A long time ago, but somehow in the future...It is a period of civil war and renegade paragraphs floating through space. |
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| Syd |
| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:05 pm |
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Site Admin
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 12894
Location: Norman, Oklahoma
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By the way, if this case was in Texas, there would be no issue, because of Texas's Futile Care Law
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/HS/content/htm/hs.002.00.000166.00.htm
The relevant section is:
Quote: § 166.039. PROCEDURE WHEN PERSON HAS NOT EXECUTED OR
ISSUED A DIRECTIVE AND IS INCOMPETENT OR INCAPABLE OF
COMMUNICATION. (a) If an adult qualified patient has not
executed or issued a directive and is incompetent or otherwise
mentally or physically incapable of communication, the attending
physician and the patient's legal guardian or an agent under a
medical power of attorney may make a treatment decision that may
include a decision to withhold or withdraw life-sustaining
treatment from the patient.
(b) If the patient does not have a legal guardian or an agent
under a medical power of attorney, the attending physician and one
person, if available, from one of the following categories, in the
following priority, may make a treatment decision that may include
a decision to withhold or withdraw life-sustaining treatment:
(1) the patient's spouse;
(2) the patient's reasonably available adult children;
(3) the patient's parents; or
(4) the patient's nearest living relative.
(c) A treatment decision made under Subsection (a) or (b)
must be based on knowledge of what the patient would desire, if
known.
This bill was signed into law by then-governor George W. Bush. |
_________________
I had a love and my love was true but I lost my love to the yabba dabba doo, --The Flintstone Lament |
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| Syd |
| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:08 pm |
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Site Admin
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 12894
Location: Norman, Oklahoma
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Apparently not originally, however. From the notes of the section:
Quote: Acts 1989, 71st Leg., ch. 678, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1989. Amended
by Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 291, § 3, eff. Jan. 1, 1998.
Renumbered from § 672.009 and amended by Acts 1999, 76th Leg.,
ch. 450, § 1.03, eff. Sept. 1, 1999.
Bush was governor from 1995 until January 20, 2001, so the original act was signed before he became governor. He did, however, sign the bill as amended. |
_________________
I had a love and my love was true but I lost my love to the yabba dabba doo, --The Flintstone Lament |
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| merlot |
| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:27 pm |
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Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 210
Location: Cinci
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Lots of families go through the process of making life and death decisions every day in this country without the furor that this case has churned up. There is probably a lot of stuff going on from both sides where we don't know the whole story. It bothers me that the Congress and President have involved themselves and are trying to pass legislation to satisfy one case.
M. |
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| Syd |
| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:48 pm |
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Site Admin
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 12894
Location: Norman, Oklahoma
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| My stepmother suffered a stroke back in the 1990s and it looked like she would not regain consciousness. My father had her taken off life support and she woke up some hours later. She lived a couple of years after that, but only partially recovered and needed a wheelchair. She only regained a little of her power of speech. |
_________________
I had a love and my love was true but I lost my love to the yabba dabba doo, --The Flintstone Lament |
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| sioux |
| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:11 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 802
Location: philly burbs
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I tend to take cases like Shiavo really personally. I had two uncles who died in their thirties and a mess of issues happened that happen when young people fail to plan for tragedies that tend to happen to older people, and those issues were directly tied to their murky relationship status (not married, but in committed relationships).
I have never been married and my parents are crazy. My dad was more rational, but he died a few years ago. I have always worried that I would be in a situation like Shiavo and my mother would be the decision maker. She's nuts, and though I have told her a thousand times what I think about every given situation like that, she is convinced that all doctors are evil and I am convinced she would keep me alive against my will and not donate my organs even though I expressly would want that. Without a husband, its a hard problem to fix. I have threatened to haunt my mother to the end of her days if she disregards my wishes, but I have seen her stress induced rationalizations.
All I can do at this point is not have a stroke or aneurysm or die.
So what I'm saying is...the Shiavo case is a murky situation and ....I want to believe in the husband. |
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| merlot |
| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:26 pm |
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Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 210
Location: Cinci
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sioux - You can put your mind at ease by going to a lawyer and having a living will made out. It states exactly under what conditions you would want intervention and what conditions you would not. I think there are also some do-it-yourself type of kits for those less inclined to spend money on a lawyer. I had to order the plug pulled for my father (his wishes to me verbally, still sucked, though). My Mom then made sure her living will was in place ASAP. Good thing , since she now has Alzheimer's and doesn't know who I am or what a living will is anymore.
M. |
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| ehle64 |
| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:35 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 7149
Location: NYC; US&A
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| Alzheimer's is such a vicious disease for everyone concerned. My heart and best wishes go out to you, merlot. |
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| Kate |
| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:49 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1397
Location: Pacific Northwest
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| I have been there, so I am not just slinging shit around. The lesson is as above - you must have a living will. |
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| sioux |
| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:42 pm |
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Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 802
Location: philly burbs
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| merlot - I have a living will - it means nothing when it comes to organ donations, and I fear that my hysterical mother could override my wishes on any esoteric scientific issues like whether a feeding tube is a life sustaining device or a life giving device. |
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| yambu |
| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:56 pm |
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Joined: 23 May 2004
Posts: 6441
Location: SF Bay Area
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merlot wrote: .....I think there are also some do-it-yourself type of kits for those less inclined to spend money on a lawyer..... |
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| censored-03 |
| Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:16 am |
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Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 3058
Location: Gotham, Big Apple, The Naked City
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With the swine called the GOP breathing down our necks and even attempting to call on that woman who is in a vegetative state (brain dead) up to Capitol Hill is insane! I am getting one of these ASAP !
http://www.delafe.com/form/frmlwill.htm |
_________________
"Life is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel."
-- Horace Walpole |
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