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Befade
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:18 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 3784 Location: AZ
Carol.......Isn't it time for South Carolina to get rid of the confederate flag and the streets named for generals.....as Jon Stewart said.

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carrobin
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:46 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 7795 Location: NYC
Well, you have to understand that it's a matter of Southern Pride. Most folks I know there don't care that much about the flag, and I don't think most people know who those streets are named for anyway, but just let the Government or them Yankees come in and tell them what to do, and it's going to be shooting at Fort Sumter and tea dumped in the harbor and all that all over again. It irritates me to hear the media to refer to the Confederate flag as a "hate symbol," because it's the symbol of southern history and sacrifice and ancestors, nothing to do with hating anyone. That Roof kid (he looks about 14, nowhere near 21) is seriously disturbed and gun-crazy like the Lanza kid who shot the schoolchildren. He doesn't represent 99.9% of southerners, most of whom are quite comfortable with mingling with other races these days. If you ask anyone in my hometown who they have a grudge against, it's them Mexicans that's taking away jobs (even though the jobs are jobs nobody else wants to do).

Eventually the flag will probably come down and maybe the streets will be renamed, but demands just make southerners stand their ground.
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Syd
Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:39 am Reply with quote
Site Admin Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 12828 Location: Norman, Oklahoma
Using the battle flag is a problem for me. On the other hand, the Georgia State Flag is the stainless banner with the Georgia State Seal in the middle of the ring of 13 stars. It was approved by popular vote a few years ago with the stars repesenting the 13 Colonies rather than (or as well as) the thirteen states on the battle flag (11 seceded states, plus Kentucky and Missouri). I have no problem with that flag since it doesn't seem to bring out the same emotions.

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carrobin
Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:42 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 7795 Location: NYC
The SC state flag has no resemblance to the Confederate flag, but the latter flies over the State House along with the former. There have been several votes over removing it, but none have succeeded. As more black politicians join the state legislature, it will probably come down.

Actually, it amazes me sometimes how far South Carolina has come in the years since I entered the university, in the same semester that the first black student entered since the days of Reconstruction. I always hoped I'd meet her but never did. Now the athletic teams are predominantly black, of course.
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carrobin
Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:12 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 7795 Location: NYC
Listening to MSNBC tonight, I'm surprised to hear that so many South Carolina politicians, including the governor, are talking about taking down the flag. I didn't think they'd pivot so quickly. I suspect they realize that the people who would vote against them for it are actually a minority that they don't really need.
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gromit
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:13 am Reply with quote
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 9000 Location: Shanghai
I guess they figure they already have the racist vote locked up ...

Is this the death of Third Eye?

Actually before my time, and I'm only vaguely aware of Firesign Theater.

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bartist
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:36 am Reply with quote
Joined: 27 Apr 2010 Posts: 6902 Location: Black Hills
carrobin wrote:
Listening to MSNBC tonight, I'm surprised to hear that so many South Carolina politicians, including the governor, are talking about taking down the flag. I didn't think they'd pivot so quickly. I suspect they realize that the people who would vote against them for it are actually a minority that they don't really need.


Nikki wants to be considered for veep, maybe. The GOP, like Mars, wants women.







]

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bartist
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:40 am Reply with quote
Joined: 27 Apr 2010 Posts: 6902 Location: Black Hills
Stupid android glitch. When I quote, it won't let me move cursor past th last bracket, so it has to be shoved to end of my text, like an eyeless grin.

Gromit, heh! I barely remember Nick Danger, Third Eye. You may recall a former esteemed member of this website was named for a FT character, "George Tirebiter."

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carrobin
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:09 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 7795 Location: NYC
The problem for SC politicians is that the votes they need are increasingly black votes. What they lose in white votes with their change of views on the flag, they'll probably more than make up in black ones.
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carrobin
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:10 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 7795 Location: NYC
Bad news about one of my favorites (this is what killed Alan Bates).news item follows:

John Hurt says he has been diagnosed with cancer but has no plans to stop working and is "more than optimistic" about his future.

The 75-year-old actor said Tuesday that he was recently diagnosed with early stage pancreatic cancer. He says he is undergoing treatment and is "more than optimistic about a satisfactory outcome, as indeed is the medical team."

Hurt's major roles include gay-rights advocate Quentin Crisp in "The Naked Civil Servant," an unfortunate astronaut in "Alien" and John Merrick in "The Elephant Man," for which he was Oscar-nominated. He played wand maker Mr. Ollivander in the "Harry Potter" movies and was knighted by Queen Elizabeth II last year.

Hurt said in "one of life's small ironies," he will soon star in "Jeffrey Bernard Is Unwell" for BBC radio.
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Marj
Posted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:09 pm Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 10497 Location: Manhattan
carrobin wrote:
No, but I know she's still on Facebook. I don't participate but I keep up.


Carol's right. However I don't participate as much as I used to.

Hi All - it's good to see your faces. I've missed you. But the truth is, while I take part in discussions on Facebook, I rarely begin one. Boo, Marjorie!

One reason, I'm there is because I have a large extended family, most living in France. But after a bit of a search, I found most of them, and we're now busy making plans to get together. I'll be spending most of August in Vermont with one of my French cousins, and a Brazilian one who has a lovely house in Vermont.

I also found many of my high school friends there as well. In fact four of us are returning to New Rochelle next week to visit old haunts, and if I had my way, do away with the current Mayor. Last year we had a rather big reunion, for which I created the playlists, as well as a FB page just for our class.

Not sure if this came up while I was still posting here, but my sister, Nancy Buirski, is now the proud recipient of the Peabody and an Emmy award for her film, The Loving Story. Her next film, Afternoon of a Faun: Tanaquel LeClerq I helped research, and now her third film, By Sidney Lumet, is doing the festival circuit. To say, I'm proud would be an unmitigated understatement. Please see those that are streaming or on DVD? If you like well done documentaries, I think you'll love these.

So, as you can see, I've been a tad busy, and this doesn't include my health situation. But if it's OK with all of you, I'd love to stop by from time time, hopefully to partake, and if time is really tight, just to say, hello.

I hope everyone here is well, and Carol, I hope you having a good recuperation. Btw, Joe is also on Facebook, seemingly happy. I know nothing about any problems he might have had before leaving here.
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bartist
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:31 am Reply with quote
Joined: 27 Apr 2010 Posts: 6902 Location: Black Hills
Will keep an eye out for your sister's films. Peabody awards are nice, but so tiny. (JK) Hope you do find time to visit. II'm glad to hear Joe is happy somewhere online. Never thought there was anything here adverse enough for him to leave, but
maybe it was too quiet or nobody was excited about what he was excited about or...you never know unless people depart flaming. (My Android's autofill tried to put flamingos there...)

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carrobin
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:23 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 7795 Location: NYC
Delighted to hear about your sister's success, Marj, and your new family connections as well! I wish my aristocratic British relatives would get in touch with me (unfortunately, they're all fictional).

I'm still using a cane, but mostly to keep my balance among the NYC crowds. I can do without it indoors, unless there are challenging stairs. And it's useful for holding elevator doors open.
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gromit
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:16 am Reply with quote
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 9000 Location: Shanghai
I forgot about your connection to The Loving Story. The dvd was here a while back. But I really haven't been buying dvd's or going to dvd shops, and more of them are closing, etc.

And speaking of Loving,* I thought the Obergefell gay marriage ruling was quite interesting.
I like conservatives ranting, It's absurd -- There's no right to gay marriage in the Constitution! But the question was whether there is a fundamental right to marriage inherent in the Constitution (14th A, substantive due process), and if so, then discriminating against same sex couples is hard to defend and causes real harm to such couples.

Kennedy's majority opinion is a bit clunky here and there, but often the way to secure and hold a 5th vote is at the price of letting Vote #5 write the court opinion. I was amused how much the dissenters cited dissenting opinions, how many justices quoted their own prior opinions, and how Roberts -- who really got angry about this opinion -- took to quoting Kennedy and Ginsburg prior opinions and writings to try to make them look hypocritical.

I was disappointed that the court didn't really/fully address the Equal Protection argument. And how they didn't address the Full Faith and Credit clause -- states unwilling to recognize other state's gay marriages -- which seemed obviously problematic and in clear violation of the Constitution. Once gay marriage is mandated for every state, the problem goes away of course. But it's still a troubling assertion of states' rights, and two of the plaintiffs based their lawsuits on exactly that issue. (There were something like 8 separate plaintiffs in 5 states consolidated into one case).

I got a kick out of Thomas' opinion, where he takes a very limited view of what liberty means, basing it on general legal definitions from the time the Constitution was drafted and when the 14th A was added. He also has some weird ideas that dignity is inherent in Man, so the gov't can grant it or take it away. And he goes so far as to claim that slavery couldn't diminish the dignity of slaves or deny their humanity.

Rather unconvincing how some conservatives and justices say that *Loving v. Virginia (miscegenation statutes declared unconstitutional) somehow doesn't count because it was tied up with slavery and racism. Somehow they can't see that one form of discrimination (race) and another (sexual orientation) still equals discrimination and still causes harm. If anything, denying gay marriage is worse because they would be totally precluded from marriage whereas blacks were allowed to get married, just not to whiteys.

Anyway, a great victory for liberty, for gay rights, for further acceptance of homosexuality, and of the concept of a living Constitution that reflects modern ideas and lives. Andrew Sullivan had a nice piece on how after he got married, his inlaws accepted him differently, and he internalized the different status, and how it really affected his sense of self and family. That is, married gays not only benefit from legal rights, but it changes their and others perceptions of their relationship and role in family and society.


Last edited by gromit on Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:42 am; edited 1 time in total

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carrobin
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:25 am Reply with quote
Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 7795 Location: NYC
Yesterday I was watching the morning political talk shows, and it really got to me how the Republicans were attacking the gay marriage decision in the name of Christianity. They really believe Jesus Christ would slam the church doors on loving gay couples? They really believe that "one man, one woman" is the way marriage has always been? (It used to be one man and as many women as he could afford to feed--and the women were treated as possessions.) It's obvious that their only "reason" for hating gay marriage is based on religion, and that kind of rationale should be unconstitutional anyway.
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